Does Carrick get an easy ride?

Glover_elbow said:
Fo me we had 2 key areas last season to improve to be challenging for the autos

1. Replacement for howson / defensive mid
Morris is doing it well.. Box ticked.

2. Address left side issues, left back early days can borges meet the challenge.
Left wing burgzorg not good enough. Hamilton doesnt look ready mcgree can't be relied on to be fit.

I would agree with your assessment of no 10 being an issue now this season. Is azaz good enough i have my doubts he is.
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I agree with that, I think Borges is going to be a good acquisition but at the moment is (like Engel was) running that left flank on his own. I would like to see Jones moved over to the left to give support to Borges as he was great there when he first came on the scene.
 
indeedido said:
His argument is a very reasonable one - and it his opinion.
I see the argument but am not there.
I think BoroMart is right, Carrick deserves patience.

The start has been stuttering - we have NOT been playing really well and are capable of better performances and results. We will need both.

The recruitment has been encouraging, it will never be foolproof.
Sadly for me Carrick clearly likes certain players that I don't rate.
BG said about not recruiting a 10. Sadly I think they think they have one in Azaz.
I think he has enough cards and some divisional top trumps to get promoted.
He might well yet do so, we are on for 73 points currently.

If he doesn't make the play offs then he will have failed.
If he does and wins them, or makes top 2 then he will be rightly revered.
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I was more making the point that Southgate’s success with England would suggest there is more to it than just the coach or manager.
 
Soutra said:
That's the crux of it right there. The players are clearly being coached to retain the ball at all costs. Jones made a mistake in miss-hitting the back pass but the much bigger error was not playing the ball back into the Derby penalty area. Boro had most of their players there. Sure, it might not have resulted in a goal, but then again it might.

Instead he tried a 60 yard backpass, scuffed it and Derby scored.

Out of the goals that Boro have scored, none have come from intricate passing movements. Penalties, corners, and - against Preston - a long ball over the defence.

Carrick is trying to play in a style that the team is not capable enough to do. Dozens of short passes that inevitably break down somewhere short of the penalty area. Then get the ball back and try again.

It doesn't work against packed defences but Carrick keeps trying it.

The optimism on here about Boro's prospects is admirable but there's no evidence at all to back that up that I've seen.

So yes, Carrick is getting an easy ride. Something needs to change. Somebody on here will say at Christmas "all we need to do is win the next eight matches and we'll be right in it". Probably true but it ain't happening.
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So you mention Jones as an example of Carrick having it easy, yet totally ignore the howler from Dieng that cost Boro a win.

As for Jones. It was his decision making not some strict instruction to always retain possession that resulted in their goal.

As for the goal on Saturday. It is totally wrong to call it a long ball. Conway stopped and held his run, waiting for Ayling to place the ball into the channel. That was done to perfection. The reaction between both in celebration tells me they’ve practiced that in training.
 
Nero said:
So you mention Jones as an example of Carrick having it easy, yet totally ignore the howler from Dieng that cost Boro a win.

As for Jones. It was his decision making not some strict instruction to always retain possession that resulted in their goal.

As for the goal on Saturday. It is totally wrong to call it a long ball. Conway stopped and held his run, waiting for Ayling to place the ball into the channel. That was done to perfection. The reaction between both in celebration tells me they’ve practiced that in training.
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Ayling was half way in the Boro half when he passed it, and Conway was halfway in the Preston half when he received it. That's a long ball.

I didn't say it was a strict instruction to retain possession. I said they are clearly being coached to do that. Why would you pass back in that position - like Jones did - if that wasn't the case?

It's so slow and laborious. Someone needs to try something different because it's just not working. Long pass, or dribble, or have Dieng kick it long, just do something different.

And Dieng - absolutely agree there. That was just a mistake. Carrick can't legislate for that.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I was meaning careful about the credibility of your argument.
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I know but I’m not arguing any point just expressing how I’m starting to feel about Carrick. Just making the point that it reminds me how I felt about Southgate at the start of his time and at the end of his time as Boro boss.
 
He's not getting an easy ride ..
But he is being giving a lot of patience... More than others at times have been given.

Which is probably right ..

That doesn't mean that people wouldn't be wondering if it was 24 points after fifteen games.

The fact that we're as predictable to play against at home, as we are, requires a change of options to prevent this.
and hanging a hat on Forss or Mcgree ain't a plan that works.
 
Boro said:
I know but I’m not arguing any point just expressing how I’m starting to feel about Carrick. Just making the point that it reminds me how I felt about Southgate at the start of his time and at the end of his time as Boro boss.
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Appreciate that and I felt the same about Southgate in particular but I was just responding by saying these days I think it may be more to do with the strength of the club and the squad generally than the quality of the manager.

I probably worded my reply wrongly.
 
I think he has been hampered by injuries. Last season was horrendous with Hackney, McGree and Forss missing half the season. If they were fit I am sure we would have made the play offs. He has a squad this year that should make play offs, but still injuries are bad and could cost us again. I do worry though in the Derby and Preston 2nd half that we never really looked like scoring despite this expected goals rubbish. I do think McGree and Forss make a huge difference to us and if they do get fit we will be a very good side.
 
I don't think we have to give out vitriol to our manager and I know the OP is just remarking that sometimes managers get it in the neck.

My view is the footballs pretty good and so is the style of player he wants to use. I've enjoyed it mostly, sometimes I get a bit frustrated lately with overworking tip -tap- Id like us to shoot a bit more.

His players... he doesn't throw them under the bus, he keeps things private, this shows he is well balanced upstairs.

Mr Carrick represents our club with a good disposition and seems a nice chap all-round , I've come away having seen some decent football, whether or not he pushes us as far a Karanka promotion wise is another thing.

Playing watchable football for me is "The starting point" Saturdays game was frustrating but there's hope.
 
binghamered said:
I think he has been hampered by injuries. Last season was horrendous with Hackney, McGree and Forss missing half the season. If they were fit I am sure we would have made the play offs. He has a squad this year that should make play offs, but still injuries are bad and could cost us again. I do worry though in the Derby and Preston 2nd half that we never really looked like scoring despite this expected goals rubbish. I do think McGree and Forss make a huge difference to us and if they do get fit we will be a very good side.
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xG would agree with you in both 2nd halves!
 
Let’s use the term ‘easy ride’ to describe sticking by our manager and backing our manager.

I think he is given that.

Good.

The alternative is scratting round for a new manager every time we hit a bump in the road or our form drops and we have to rip up and start again with no real indication of improvement.

Leave the itchy trigger fingers to the global investment conglomerates and the flyby night chairmen looking to make a quick buck.

Saying that.. Agnew in the prem? Monk with his hands on the purse strings, Pullis selling off the family silverware to by out of date Encyclopaedias and Tupperware..

I’ll take the easy ride option every time.
 
newyddion said:
Let’s use the term ‘easy ride’ to describe sticking by our manager and backing our manager.

I think he is given that.

Good.

The alternative is scratting round for a new manager every time we hit a bump in the road or our form drops and we have to rip up and start again with no real indication of improvement.

Leave the itchy trigger fingers to the global investment conglomerates and the flyby night chairmen looking to make a quick buck.

Saying that.. Agnew in the prem? Monk with his hands on the purse strings, Pullis selling off the family silverware to by out of date Encyclopaedias and Tupperware..

I’ll take the easy ride option every time.
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You left out the bonkers Woodgate appointment...
 
I think he gets a lot more time and patience than other managers might have got because he's a nice bloke and he's trying to play good football. Sometimes it is purely results that gets a manager sacked but others it can be a much shorter run of results and the manager or the football not being likeable (Monk, Wilder etc.). Carrick had an atrocious start to the season last year and if that had been someone else they probably wouldn't have kept their job. There wasn't really any dissent from the fans either.

There will come a point where if we're failing to progress then there might need to be a change but that would probably be a thanks but we're going to move ahead with someone else than a get out of my club sort of situation. Carrick has proven that he can get us playing football that is good enough to challenge for promotion. If we were going to be changing manager I don't think there are many options that would be better than him so it's not just the decision to get rid of Carrick but whether there are realistically any better options. Think his job is justifiably safe for the foreseeable.
 
Nano said:
I think he gets a lot more time and patience than other managers might have got because he's a nice bloke and he's trying to play good football. Sometimes it is purely results that gets a manager sacked but others it can be a much shorter run of results and the manager or the football not being likeable (Monk, Wilder etc.). Carrick had an atrocious start to the season last year and if that had been someone else they probably wouldn't have kept their job. There wasn't really any dissent from the fans either.

There will come a point where if we're failing to progress then there might need to be a change but that would probably be a thanks but we're going to move ahead with someone else than a get out of my club sort of situation. Carrick has proven that he can get us playing football that is good enough to challenge for promotion. If we were going to be changing manager I don't think there are many options that would be better than him so it's not just the decision to get rid of Carrick but whether there are realistically any better options. Think his job is justifiably safe for the foreseeable.
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Think the fact he's so far helped significantly increase the value of several players goes heavily in his plus column too. Part of that is recruitment, but part of it is the way he wants us to play and giving players the freedom to express themselves.

And while he is a nice bloke, it's much more than that. He's unflappable, doesn't panic under pressure seems to have a clear idea of what he wants to do (without second guessing himself if things go wrong) and doesn't throw players under the bus.

All very positive attributes that aren't easy to find.

On Monk and Wilder. Their off field activities probably had as much to do with their sacking as results did. Both I think would have been given longer, but they made it easy for Gibbo in the end.
 
When Carrick first came, he changed Wilders tactics that were really struggling into a great footballing team (some of the best football I have ever seen Boro play).
The following season he was (in my opinion) delt a a poor hand, he tried to play the same way with players who couldn't do it.
So he made the team more solid and went front to back quicker, and we eventually started to pick up points and had a decent season.
On Saturday it reminded me of Coventry and Stoke games where the opposition have done their homework on us and nullified our creative midfield...that's when Carrick needs to move players into different positions try something new he has thought about and worked on, and (please) get the subs on earlier to give them a chance of making an impact.
I don't think I have ever seen Hackney and Barlaser play well together as a midfield pairing?
 
We've played 5 games with new players settling in and with a disrupted defence due to injury problems.. Lost once.

He's doing a cracking job, only the numpties think we should have 15 points
 
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