Tories close gap on Labour to 1 point

HolgateCorner said:
I can’t see the Tories coming back from here, Johnson was the first Tory since 1992 to get a decent working majority and that was on the back of his chummy approach appealing to Northern Brexit voters.

I think the media have tried to make it feel like a Tory government is normal and to be expected since 2019 but that is far from the reality of the last 30 years.
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No it was brexit.

I don’t think it’s a case of what Boris has done to attract votes. People have voted Tory who never would have before and it’s broken an unwritten rule, it’s broken a stigma. Part aspirational but mainly better the devil you know. Kier Starmer has caused levels of damage to the Labour Party not seen since the Lib Dems reneged on free university tuition.

Who wants fake tories when you can vote for the real thing?
 
newyddion said:
No it was brexit.

I don’t think it’s a case of what Boris has done to attract votes. People have voted Tory who never would have before and it’s broken an unwritten rule, it’s broken a stigma. Part aspirational but mainly better the devil you know. Kier Starmer has caused levels of damage to the Labour Party not seen since the Lib Dems reneged on free university tuition.

Who wants fake tories when you can vote for the real thing?
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Yes I agree it was Brexit and Corbyn/Labour had a convoluted approach to it which didn’t sell well.

I think the popularity of Brexit has caught all politicians except Farage out in reality.

But my main point is that the Tory vote is nowhere near as solid as the media would like us to think, Johnson polled very similar numbers to Theresa who spectacularly failed to get a majority, but Corbyn’s vote plummeted and let him in.

Oh and if you are talking about fake Tories, some of these candidates now want to take the Conservatives away from Johnson’s regime and back to their traditional values (whatever they might be). Why have fake socialists when you can have the real thing?
 
I agree with newy, I also believe the people I know who said ‘they couldn’t vote corbyn (despite doing so in 2017) cos he can’t be trusted with the economy was a smokescreen to vote Tory to get brexit they wanted to rid of Jonny foreigner

Depressing when you think about it
 
GazC_MFC said:
I agree with newy, I also believe the people I know who said ‘they couldn’t vote corbyn (despite doing so in 2017) cos he can’t be trusted with the economy was a smokescreen to vote Tory to get brexit they wanted to rid of Jonny foreigner

Depressing when you think about it
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Why is it depressing? Johnson made the right call, that’s all, half the Tory Party didn’t want Brexit either but were forced down that route by a surprise referendum result.
 
GazC_MFC said:
I agree with newy, I also believe the people I know who said ‘they couldn’t vote corbyn (despite doing so in 2017) cos he can’t be trusted with the economy was a smokescreen to vote Tory to get brexit they wanted to rid of Jonny foreigner

Depressing when you think about it
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I don't thin kit was that. People voted for Brexit and we had Labour MPs that said they would actively campaign against it. These were the same lot that were not going to back Corbyn or any of the Labour manifesto pledges. These people are supposed to be our representatives and they had no intention of supporting the will of the people. This in the end made them unelectable. Corbyn's biggest asset what his honesty and integrity, a different kind of politician. A soft Brexit proved extremely popular amongst both leavers and remainers. He was forced into promoting a 2nd referendum, ending any shred of integrity or honesty. A life long critic of the EU sitting on the fence and umming and ahhing at the demand of the PLP

Not everyone who voted brexit was racist (sure everyone who was racist voted Brexit) the reason Labour lost seats was down to a much more basic and fundamental lack or democracy and representation. The answer of course was to install the cheif instigator, Sir Keir, The Conservative Parties choice.. David Cameron called for him to be Labour leader in the HOC! Resigning in 2016 (a huge reason the electorate lost faith in the party in 2017.. particularly those who were sitting on the fence and non voters) unbelievably followed by painting Labour as 'The Party of Remain' in 2019


Elected as an MP in 2015
Resigned from the shadow cabinet in 2016
Re-elected under Corbyn in 2017
Campaigned for a public vote in 2018
Painted Labour as 'The Party of Remain' in 2019
Starmer elected leader on the back of support for Corbyn and 10 socialist pledges 2020
Removed the party whip from Corbyn 2020
Scrapped his 10 pledges 2021
Rules out re-joining EU 2022

It's almost like he was only in the party to keep the tories in power. Some 7 years that Sir Keir!
 
GazC_MFC said:
It’s depressing people used corbyn to disguise their bigotry
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Yes but it is what it is, even the Tories are being heavily criticised for their record on immigration so these types of people are not just using Corbyn as an excuse.

This is what the anti woke agenda is all about, I mean fancy waking up to institutional racial and cultural prejudice and wanting to do something about it. What’s that all about?

On the other hand you can’t just allow free movement of millions of people without any planned increase in infrastructure provision, including housing, schools and hospitals. Eventually you get problems and maybe that’s promoting the bigotry.
 
GazC_MFC said:
It’s depressing people used corbyn to disguise their bigotry
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It's depressing we didn't have enough Labour MPs that were willing to support Labour Party values. Rightly or wrongly Brexit should have been the core policy of Labours 2019 manifesto. In all honesty the 2017 could have been used again. Boris had been pro EU all his career before and clearly could not be trusted. Jeremy Corbyn as a lifelong critic of the EU should have had s clean sweep in 2019 if supported by his PPCs

Yes it was the political hot potato, but it should never have been aloud to land in the hands of the Conservative Party. a Soft Brexit with Proportional Representation (STV) at the forefront would have permanently stunted the Conservative Party. Split by the ECR/UKIP and the like never again would they be allowed to game the two party system.
 
In 2017 Theresa May's Conservative Party received 13,636,684 votes.

In 2019 Boris Johnson's Conservative Party received 13,966,454 votes.

So only 330k people thought the vote winning behemoth that was Johnson was a better option than the unpopular and failing Theresa May, whilst the majority his party won was impressive the actual total votes tell a slightly different story.

The most telling statistic was the drop of over 2.5 million for Corbyn's Labour between 2017 and 2019, new voters coming across didn't win Johnson his majority, the fact that the Labour Party vote collapsed defaulted him a Parliamentary dominance that didn't really reflect a noticeable increase in his personal popularity with voters over May.

The Press were happy to feed the narrative of Johnson being popular and a game changer when the truth was he was marginally more popular than May, who was said to be a vote loser by the same publications.
 
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Trug said:
ANY Labour government is better than any Tory government.
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I voted for Starmer
I voted for Corbyn
I voted for Milliband
I voted for Brown
I voted for Blair
I supported Smith
I supported Kinnock

I just don't get these 'fake tory', 'tory lite' accusations against Starmer.

You're either with Labour or you're not. Getting upset because 'your man' is not in charge anymore is F***ing pathetic.
 
BoroFur said:
I voted for Starmer
I voted for Corbyn
I voted for Milliband
I voted for Brown
I voted for Blair
I supported Smith
I supported Kinnock

I just don't get these 'fake tory', 'tory lite' accusations against Starmer.

You're either with Labour or you're not. Getting upset because 'your man' is not in charge anymore is F***ing pathetic.
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Well effing said
 
BoroFur said:
I voted for Starmer
I voted for Corbyn
I voted for Milliband
I voted for Brown
I voted for Blair
I supported Smith
I supported Kinnock

I just don't get these 'fake tory', 'tory lite' accusations against Starmer.

You're either with Labour or you're not. Getting upset because 'your man' is not in charge anymore is F***ing pathetic.
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Hard to argue with that and some of the posting is illogical when the Tories are in complete disarray and a poll is showing Labour 15% ahead.
 
Trug said:
ANY Labour government is better than any Tory government.
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True Dat.. I don't think the purple lib dem variation will be able to pull it off I'm afraid.
BoroFur said:
I voted for Starmer
I voted for Corbyn
I voted for Milliband
I voted for Brown
I voted for Blair
I supported Smith
I supported Kinnock

I just don't get these 'fake tory', 'tory lite' accusations against Starmer.

You're either with Labour or you're not. Getting upset because 'your man' is not in charge anymore is F***ing pathetic.
Click to expand...
I totally understand the criticism aimed towards the right wing of the Labour Party. Your either for Labour Party values or you're not.. no point getting upset when folks won't vote for someone who refuses to represent them.
 
HolgateCorner said:
Hard to argue with that and some of the posting is illogical when the Tories are in complete disarray and a poll is showing Labour 15% ahead.
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When the Tories get a new leader their polling will surge ahead. Starmer will be the leader who sat on his hands during Boris Johnson's chaotic reign. The possibility of a third female prime minister or the first person of colour to be UK prime minister will be yet another win for the Conservatives.

The idea of supporting Brexit in 2019 was seen by many to be illogical and racist.. I didn't vote for brexit myself but did see a huge problem with Labour sitting on the fence or going against the result in it's entirety. I voted for a Labour MP who was a huge critic of the leadership, the manifesto, Labour party members and his constituents. I once again voted through gritted teeth for 'the greater good' knowing full well that not only would this man not win.. but also that he did not deserve my vote.
 
BoroFur said:
I voted for Starmer
I voted for Corbyn
I voted for Milliband
I voted for Brown
I voted for Blair
I supported Smith
I supported Kinnock

I just don't get these 'fake tory', 'tory lite' accusations against Starmer.

You're either with Labour or you're not. Getting upset because 'your man' is not in charge anymore is F***ing pathetic.
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Because of my age, I can add Callaghan and Wilson, but I agree with your sentiments. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to criticise some of the positions taken by any of the leaders, past or present.
 
newyddion said:
I don't thin kit was that. People voted for Brexit and we had Labour MPs that said they would actively campaign against it. These were the same lot that were not going to back Corbyn or any of the Labour manifesto pledges. These people are supposed to be our representatives and they had no intention of supporting the will of the people. This in the end made them unelectable. Corbyn's biggest asset what his honesty and integrity, a different kind of politician. A soft Brexit proved extremely popular amongst both leavers and remainers. He was forced into promoting a 2nd referendum, ending any shred of integrity or honesty. A life long critic of the EU sitting on the fence and umming and ahhing at the demand of the PLP

Not everyone who voted brexit was racist (sure everyone who was racist voted Brexit) the reason Labour lost seats was down to a much more basic and fundamental lack or democracy and representation. The answer of course was to install the cheif instigator, Sir Keir, The Conservative Parties choice.. David Cameron called for him to be Labour leader in the HOC! Resigning in 2016 (a huge reason the electorate lost faith in the party in 2017.. particularly those who were sitting on the fence and non voters) unbelievably followed by painting Labour as 'The Party of Remain' in 2019


Elected as an MP in 2015
Resigned from the shadow cabinet in 2016
Re-elected under Corbyn in 2017
Campaigned for a public vote in 2018
Painted Labour as 'The Party of Remain' in 2019
Starmer elected leader on the back of support for Corbyn and 10 socialist pledges 2020
Removed the party whip from Corbyn 2020
Scrapped his 10 pledges 2021
Rules out re-joining EU 2022

It's almost like he was only in the party to keep the tories in power. Some 7 years that Sir Keir!
Click to expand...
The 'will of the people' thing is the biggest load of nonsense. It is a made up concept.
 
newyddion said:
True Dat.. I don't think the purple lib dem variation will be able to pull it off I'm afraid.

I totally understand the criticism aimed towards the right wing of the Labour Party. Your either for Labour Party values or you're not.. no point getting upset when folks won't vote for someone who refuses to represent them.
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I can’t argue with anything you’ve written on this thread Newy………………whose writing it for yer?
 
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