Tories close gap on Labour to 1 point

Laughing said:
I am not sure they can festa. It has to be referenced in their manifesto. It is a convention rather than a legality. The house of Lords will always let a bill pass if its referenced in the manifesto but I think they have far more power if it isn't referenced in the manifesto. It can be referenced very obliquely.

I'll look for the wording later today to see if I am right.
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Interesting. Cheers.

Are you saying that is for constitutional changes rather than just any bill I assume? As obviously the Tories have brought in loads of stuff that wasn't in their manifesto.

A moot point because labour wouldn't attempt it anyway, but interesting nonetheless.
 
festa5 said:
Interesting. Cheers.

Are you saying that is for constitutional changes rather than just any bill I assume? As obviously the Tories have brought in loads of stuff that wasn't in their manifesto.

A moot point because labour wouldn't attempt it anyway, but interesting nonetheless.
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It applies to constitutional changes only festa. Other changes only require a parliamentary vote. Just stopping work for lunch so I'll look for a reference to this.
 
Laughing said:
It applies to constitutional changes only festa. Other changes only require a parliamentary vote. Just stopping work for lunch so I'll look for a reference to this.
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We haven't got a constitution, it's all up for grabs, as this government have shown.

The Labour Party won't take the same route, far more civilised and respectful for that to happen.
 
Laughing said:
It applies to constitutional changes only festa. Other changes only require a parliamentary vote. Just stopping work for lunch so I'll look for a reference to this.
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You can find the legal arguments about constitutional change here: https://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1475&context=law_review

Sufficient inclusion of "the people" is the main bit. If it is in a parties manifesto, then "the people" have given a mandate for that change. If it is not, then a referendum would need to take place. It's a long boring read, but important..

CtC we do not have a written constitution, but we have a set of constitutional principles, which are enshrined in our legal system. For example, Johnsons prorogue of parliament was found to be illegal because it was unconstitutional. It was designed to take away parliamentary oversight of brexit.
 
Laughing said:
You can find the legal arguments about constitutional change here: https://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1475&context=law_review

Sufficient inclusion of "the people" is the main bit. If it is in a parties manifesto, then "the people" have given a mandate for that change. If it is not, then a referendum would need to take place. It's a long boring read, but important..

CtC we do not have a written constitution, but we have a set of constitutional principles, which are enshrined in our legal system. For example, Johnsons prorogue of parliament was found to be illegal because it was unconstitutional. It was designed to take away parliamentary oversight of brexit.
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"For example, Johnsons prorogue of parliament was found to be illegal because it was unconstitutional. It was designed to take away parliamentary oversight of brexit."
It was illegal but it seems there is no punishment for it.
 
Trug said:
"For example, Johnsons prorogue of parliament was found to be illegal because it was unconstitutional. It was designed to take away parliamentary oversight of brexit."
It was illegal but it seems there is no punishment for it.
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That's true also.
 
Laughing said:
You can find the legal arguments about constitutional change here: https://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1475&context=law_review

Sufficient inclusion of "the people" is the main bit. If it is in a parties manifesto, then "the people" have given a mandate for that change. If it is not, then a referendum would need to take place. It's a long boring read, but important..

CtC we do not have a written constitution, but we have a set of constitutional principles, which are enshrined in our legal system. For example, Johnsons prorogue of parliament was found to be illegal because it was unconstitutional. It was designed to take away parliamentary oversight of brexit.
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David Allen Green and other constitutional lawyer pedants I think would rephrase this to 'uncodified' rather than 'unwritten'. Since pretty much everything is based on legal precedent which is all recorded and written down and even where it is rules, codes of conduct and guidelines, rather than the law, it is still written down in Hansard, Erskine May, etc.
 
Lefty said:
David Allen Green and other constitutional lawyer pedants I think would rephrase this to 'uncodified' rather than 'unwritten'. Since pretty much everything is based on legal precedent which is all recorded and written down and even where it is rules, codes of conduct and guidelines, rather than the law, it is still written down in Hansard, Erskine May, etc.
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Precedent and Convention and FPTP, which has just had a political bulldozer driven over it. Ludicrous way run an alleged democracy in the 21st. Century.
The political ignorance that runs through elements of the population in this country is frightening.
It’s not by chance.
 
Ziggy said:
Precedent and Convention and FPTP, which has just had a political bulldozer driven over it. Ludicrous way run an alleged democracy in the 21st. Century.
The political ignorance that runs through elements of the population in this country is frightening.
It’s not by chance.
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One of the weaknesses of our Constitution is that it is very difficult to know what it is. One of the strengths of our Constitution was that it was very difficult to know what it is.

That did mean that if you couldn't be sure where the line was, you'd stop well short of it to make damn sure you hadn't crossed it.

Then came Johnson, who doesn't care about lines. They don't apply to someone as above them as he is.
 
Lefty said:
One of the weaknesses of our Constitution is that it is very difficult to know what it is. One of the strengths of our Constitution was that it was very difficult to know what it is.

That did mean that if you couldn't be sure where the line was, you'd stop well short of it to make damn sure you hadn't crossed it.

Then came Johnson, who doesn't care about lines. They don't apply to someone as above them as he is.
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Now the door is wide open. Constitutions. If it’s not encoded are ultimately worthless.
There is no way of holding the executive to account. Maugham and others have used the courts to some extent. So now the government decides that Parliament being sovereign they will use legislation to disallow the courts to overturn any act that they dictate the courts can’t. This happened in Germany in the 30’s Gerrymandering the boundaries, ID for voting. Making protest illegal.. Our system was once described as a Benign Dictatorship. Well, that’s over now.
 
Ziggy said:
Now the door is wide open. Constitutions. If it’s not encoded are ultimately worthless.
There is no way of holding the executive to account. Maugham and others have used the courts to some extent. So now the government decides that Parliament being sovereign they will use legislation to disallow the courts to overturn any act that they dictate the courts can’t. This happened in Germany in the 30’s Gerrymandering the boundaries, ID for voting. Making protest illegal.. Our system was once described as a Benign Dictatorship. Well, that’s over now.
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It is a battle and the only way to win it is by doing what the USA is trying to do. Disgrace them publicly and for any law they break put them on trial, convict them and make an example of them.
 
Lefty said:
It is a battle and the only way to win it is by doing what the USA is trying to do. Disgrace them publicly and for any law they break put them on trial, convict them and make an example of them.
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Well, won’t be holding my breath on that one, lefty.😉
 
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