The next James Bond

Laughing said:
Said as a film guy I am sure. The origonal books may not be important to you but to some they are. I grew up with characters like greystoke and bond and I am neither a mysoginist nor racist.

As I say I haven't seen a bond movie and have no wish to see one but I don't understand why we can't just make a spy movie and carry whom we like. In fact I probably do understand. Using the bond character generates sales at the box office so the makers want to maximise their profits whilst playing lip service to equality.
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Why wouldn’t you want to see bond used to make the world a better place. He’s a fictional character
 
GazC_MFC said:
Why wouldn’t you want to see bond used to make the world a better place. He’s a fictional character
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Firstly I don't think in any way shape or form would casting a woman or a black man as bond make the world a better place.

Secondly, yes he is a fictional character but a literary important one. I see not to you, but to others he is.

Should we cast every character as black or female in every movie? Surely that would make the world a better place? And no I don't believe that either.

I just don't think it's an issue that has to be addressed.
 
GazC_MFC said:
Why wouldn’t you want to see bond used to make the world a better place. He’s a fictional character
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A fictional character being played by an actual person that you want to utilise as a tool in a tawdry culture war. That's really not a progressive step at all.
 
It has been noted that only three of you could bring yourself to support my attempt to get the role. Thanks for that Erimus74 and HarryVegas and The Unicorn. Nice to know that at least some people believe in me on here. The rest of you should hang your heads in shame.
 
MFP said:
A fictional character being played by an actual person that you want to utilise as a tool in a tawdry culture war. That's really not a progressive step at all.
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No, I want to change people perceptions and unconscious bias, to stop oppression of BAME/women/lgbtq+ people.

Inclusion has a long way to go
 
GazC_MFC said:
No James Bond being white isn’t outdated. That James Bond it white everytime is outdated though. It’s fictional character.

I wouldn’t have a problem with the next bond being white, I just think it would be good for the world to see a bame/female bond
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Again though, I think you're getting it confused. If you make Bond BAME or female you fundamentally change Bond. Therefore you're not using the franchise or the established name to beneift the world. You're damaging the established name.

Whats wrong with 007 being BAME and/or Female? Then you don't damage the character you say is so important, you keep the franchise, and those invested in the films will be happy. It'll still antagonise the people you want to antagonise. I can't see why you can't do that, achieve your goal of virtue signalling and "triggering" people without damaging possibly one of english literatures most significant serial characters. Behind Holmes of course.
 
bumface said:
It has been noted that only three of you could bring yourself to support my attempt to get the role. Thanks for that Erimus74 and HarryVegas and The Unicorn. Nice to know that at least some people believe in me on here. The rest of you should hang your heads in shame.
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I couldn't possibly support you for a role as a debonaire, smooth talking spy bumface sorry.
 
MFP said:
I don't think racists aren't going to stop being racist just because James Bond might happen to be played by a black actor.
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No, but a more than a few of them will spontaneously self combust 😎

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I've no issue whatsoever with James Bond being BAME, but the character should be male and should be British.

There's absolutely no sensible reason to make the character female except to try and prove a point and piggyback on the success of an established character.
It's lazy.

You can have a new spy in the Franchise as a woman, absolutely, I thought Paloma was fantastic in the new film, and Nomi was good too, and I'm sure it would work well.
 
SmallTown said:
Again though, I think you're getting it confused. If you make Bond BAME or female you fundamentally change Bond. Therefore you're not using the franchise or the established name to beneift the world. You're damaging the established name.

Whats wrong with 007 being BAME and/or Female? Then you don't damage the character you say is so important, you keep the franchise, and those invested in the films will be happy. It'll still antagonise the people you want to antagonise. I can't see why you can't do that, achieve your goal of virtue signalling and "triggering" people without damaging possibly one of english literatures most significant serial characters. Behind Holmes of course.
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How can a fictional character called bond being played by someone else, white or BAME become damaging. What do you damage exactly?

what I think you are effectively saying through this theme of this thread is BAME people havent been successful enough in the past to have a believable back story to be bond?

James Bond is make believe, his back story is make believe, if you change him to be bame he is still make believe
 
GazC_MFC said:
How can a fictional character called bond being played by someone else, white or BAME become damaging. What do you damage exactly?

what I think you are effectively saying through this theme of this thread is BAME people havent been successful enough in the past to have a believable back story to be bond?

James Bond is make believe, his back story is make believe, if you change him to be bame he is still make believe
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I'm not sure why you are being so obtuse here and jsut refusing to listen to what I'm saying so I'll answer the same questions again, in the order you asked:

His backstory, already established through many books and films

No, that is not what I'm effecitevly saying. I've explained it in great detail twice now, I don't know how clear I need to be about his backstory

Yes, but you change the character. And you seem insistent that it is the character, James Bond, that has the intrinsic value. Not his role as 007. I'm arguing it's the 007 role that makes Bond bond and you can change that character all you want. I'm not sure what you're not getting now, I've repeated myself a few times but you don't seem to be understanding as you keep asking me the same question?
 
SmallTown said:
I'm not sure why you are being so obtuse here and jsut refusing to listen to what I'm saying so I'll answer the same questions again, in the order you asked:

His backstory, already established through many books and films

No, that is not what I'm effecitevly saying. I've explained it in great detail twice now, I don't know how clear I need to be about his backstory

Yes, but you change the character. And you seem insistent that it is the character, James Bond, that has the intrinsic value. Not his role as 007. I'm arguing it's the 007 role that makes Bond bond and you can change that character all you want. I'm not sure what you're not getting now, I've repeated myself a few times but you don't seem to be understanding as you keep asking me the same question?
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I think you file your point under codswallop.

when has his backstory played an important part to James Bond in the films. I don’t think I have ever thought of his back story when watching a film. I certainly didn’t think oooo, bond is bond because he has white rich parents.

we will just have to agree to disagree.
 
GazC_MFC said:
I think you file your point under codswallop.

when has his backstory played an important part to James Bond in the films. I don’t think I have ever thought of his back story when watching a film. I certainly didn’t think oooo, bond is bond because he has white rich parents.

we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Yeah I don't think you're ever going to understand my point. Backstories are important, to me at least, in investing in a film franchise this big. Changing it would chsnge the character that you say has the intrinsic worth. You admit "Jame Bond" has value. So maybe you should see that altering that would also affect the value?

I do find it mildly offensive that you imply racism and think I don't belive BAME people have been successful enough. That's not a cool accusation. Especially when I was extremely specific in relating it to Bond's backstory. In which I clearly stated that in that case BAME people had not been afforded the chances Bond had be showing you a fact about real life BAME people with a similar military rank as Bond. It's not cool right that I shoudl show you an actual, MOD statisitic and you imply racism because I shared that.
 
SmallTown said:
Yeah I don't think you're ever going to understand my point. Backstories are important, to me at least, in investing in a film franchise this big. Changing it would chsnge the character that you say has the intrinsic worth. You admit "Jame Bond" has value. So maybe you should see that altering that would also affect the value?

I do find it mildly offensive that you imply racism and think I don't belive BAME people have been successful enough. That's not a cool accusation. Especially when I was extremely specific in relating it to Bond's backstory. In which I clearly stated that in that case BAME people had not been afforded the chances Bond had be showing you a fact about real life BAME people with a similar military rank as Bond. It's not cool right that I shoudl show you an actual, MOD statisitic and you imply racism because I shared that.
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You said the story wouldn’t be believable if the character was BAME in relation to the back story, despite it being fiction
 
Reinventing established characters from literature risks losing the identity and values that the author has painstakingly built into the previous books. Lose the identity and you lose the readership.

Ophelia as a bloke?
Othello as a white guy?
Sherlock Holmes as a woman?

No of course not. That's not to say a MI6 agent shouldn't be gay or female or black. Just make them OO9 and don't call them James Bond.
 
Randy said:
He already has a house there doesn't he?

Big rumour going round the village about Hardy. Either Newton under Roseberry or Pinchinthorpe
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Yes he does, though it’s not completed yet. If TH has got a house or is having one built, then he’s kept it very secret from the residents.
 
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