The next James Bond

Rauko said:
Underwhelming if so .. but, without being accused of height-ism .. he's too small surely? Isn't he about 5'6" or something? Surely Bond should be a big 6 foot tall strapping lad .. The Bond girls will tower over Jamie Bell.

If he's up for it - I'd go Tom Hardy
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Building a house in Newton Under Roseberry apparently.
 
GazC_MFC said:
the character was created in 1950’s, that’s why it’s a white character. The character is mi6 agent, so it doesn’t have to always be a white male. I don’t see why anyone would think that
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It''s not that simple is it. The character is the SON of two wealthy, Western European parents, privately educated in England and a former British army commander and Secret service agent. It's got nothing to do with the decade he was created in, it's everything to do with his backstory. I couldn't find the list for Commanders but there were preciesly 0 BAME officers at the rank of captain in the royal Navy/ Royal Marines in 2016, and only one in any rank above this. That's not a big figure. I woudl assume She/he wasn't the son of wealthy western indsutrialists either.

That's how incredulous a none white Bond would be without changing his story, ergo changing the character. Much easier and far more realistic to have 007 as a woman or BAME man than it would be to completely change Bond
 
SmallTown said:
I don't think the back story needs "protecting" I just acknoweldge it's existence. As do you. In the same way you say "why should a BAME actor or woman not play Bond as it's an established and known role. It IS an established and known role. With a known backstory that would have to change in order for anything other than an older, white, male actor to play the leading role. If the back story doesn't change the lead characters story would look highly unfeasible. Therefore it WOULD look like a gimmick. Would look like it's been done to virtue signal and not actually portray a story.

I have no issue with 007 being black, or a woman and this would also achieve your antagonistic goal of "triggering" people but I do have an issue of James Bond being black (maybe maybe not it's improbable but might be possible, But name me a wealthy swiss industrialist AND a wealthy, land owning Scottish arms trader who are both black) or Bond being a woman because I'm invested in the character through watching the films.
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I’ve never watched a bond film and thought I wonder what he was doing before this film. I recognise it’s a fictional character and it doesn’t really matter who plays ‘James bond’

I understand that the world is full of misogynists, racists and xenophobia. One of The most prominent roles in world film could go a long way to helping change people views, and change the world to be a better place.

I think you may have to look at you inner self why you really need James Bond to be white. The character has been reset numerous times. More than one person in the world can be called James Bond
 
SmallTown said:
Thanks, good point I'll check them out. Do you recommend just starting at Casino Royale and rattling through them or are there ones which are must reads?
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Start with casino royale whilst Fleming re introduces bond in each book which was common at the time but you get a better sense of the character reading cr first.

I think that's the book that starts with the line "he lit his 100'th cigarette of the day" and that kinda sets the character up beautifully.
 
GazC_MFC said:
I’ve never watched a bond film and thought I wonder what he was doing before this film. I recognise it’s a fictional character and it doesn’t really matter who plays ‘James bond’

I understand that the world is full of misogynists, racists and xenophobia. One of The most prominent roles in world film could go a long way to helping change people views, and change the world to be a better place.

I think you may have to look at you inner self why you really need James Bond to be white. The character has been reset numerous times. More than one person in the world can be called James Bond
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OH you're implying I'm racist now? OK. I see where we are.

Can you not see that you are defeating your own arguement though? You keep repeating that James Bond is a prominent role in film. I agree. But the only way we can have your antagonistic "triggering" of Bond is by fundamentally altering that prominent role. You're actually arguing against yourself in your quest to find out who is racist.
 
SmallTown said:
It''s not that simple is it. The character is the SON of two wealthy, Western European parents, privately educated in England and a former British army commander and Secret service agent. It's got nothing to do with the decade he was created in, it's everything to do with his backstory. I couldn't find the list for Commanders but there were preciesly 0 BAME officers at the rank of captain in the royal Navy/ Royal Marines in 2016, and only one in any rank above this. That's not a big figure. I woudl assume She/he wasn't the son of wealthy western indsutrialists either.

That's how incredulous a none white Bond would be without changing his story, ergo changing the character. Much easier and far more realistic to have 007 as a woman or BAME man than it would be to completely change Bond
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I don’t think it’s really that important what the book background is, it fiction, you can amend the back story slightly , whatever you want to do. Why can’t james bonds parents be black and wealthy from Switzerland?
 
SmallTown said:
OH you're implying I'm racist now? OK. I see where we are.

Can you not see that you are defeating your own arguement though? You keep repeating that James Bond is a prominent role in film. I agree. But the only way we can have your antagonistic "triggering" of Bond is by fundamentally altering that prominent role. You're actually arguing against yourself in your quest to find out who is racist.
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I didn’t imply you where racist. I just asked you to looks at yourself
 
MFP said:
I don't think racists aren't going to stop being racist just because James Bond might happen to be played by a black actor.
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It will change people perception, especially people growing up. It will change unconscious bias for some people. If it changes by 0.01% it’s progress
 
GazC_MFC said:
I don’t think it’s really that important what the book background is, it fiction, you can amend the back story slightly , whatever you want to do. Why can’t james bonds parents be black and wealthy from Switzerland?
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Without wanting to get into the argument, lovers of literature would probably argue that the character, who was well fleshed out in a series of books is important.

It forms part of our literary heritage and as an avid collector of books it would be important to me if I had any desire to see a bond movie.
 
Laughing said:
Without wanting to get into the argument, lovers of literature would probably argue that the character, who was well fleshed out in a series of books is important.

It forms part of our literary heritage and as an avid collector of books it would be important to me if I had any desire to see a bond movie.
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What’s more important staying true to outdated views of book to appease avid fans, or to try and attempt to make change in the world?
 
On the same subject Gaz what is your opinion of the sexism and racism in Shakespeare works?

You can celebrate literature without agreeing with the attitudes of the time these works were written.
 
Laughing said:
On the same subject Gaz what is your opinion of the sexism and racism in Shakespeare works?

You can celebrate literature without agreeing with the attitudes of the time these works were written.
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I think you can reinterpret the books to bring them to modern standards if you were going to recreate a film

in fact numerous interpretations have been made in the past.

for instance I think it would be really cool if Romeo and Juliet was recreated with the same sex relationship between the two main characters
 
GazC_MFC said:
I think you can reinterpret the books to bring them to modern standards if you were going to recreate a film

in fact numerous interpretations have been made in the past.

for instance I think it would be really cool if Romeo and Juliet was recreated with the same sex relationship between the two main characters
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Not by the rsc it hasn't. I am not even sure if should be in any circumstances. These were part of popular culture in the past and they are not the reason we have sexism and racism today. In the words of Stephen King the world had moved on but we shouldn't eradicate the past but learn from it.
 
Laughing said:
Not by the rsc it hasn't. I am not even sure if should be in any circumstances. These were part of popular culture in the past and they are not the reason we have sexism and racism today. In the words of Stephen King the world had moved on but we shouldn't eradicate the past but learn from it.
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I’m not advocating cancel the original work. If you have a BAME bond, the original work isn’t affected, and neither all the other bond films.
 
GazC_MFC said:
What’s more important staying true to outdated views of book to appease avid fans, or to try and attempt to make change in the world?
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Is James Bond being white considered outdated? I really can't make sense of your arguments here in all honesty.
Outdated aspects of Fleming's books in the film have more or less have been ironed out and you can see that comparing Dr No. to the Craig films. You've even mentioned how the franchise has moved with the times and evolved to represent modern sensibilities, which it has managed to do with a white James Bond.
Interestingly, the issues of misogyny and race in Bond is considered outdated, what are the modern views on the wanton death, murder and mass destruction that regularly feature? Not really reflective of modern secret services.
 
GazC_MFC said:
I’m not advocating cancel the original work. If you have a BAME bond, the original work isn’t affected, and neither all the other bond films.
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Said as a film guy I am sure. The origonal books may not be important to you but to some they are. I grew up with characters like greystoke and bond and I am neither a mysoginist nor racist.

As I say I haven't seen a bond movie and have no wish to see one but I don't understand why we can't just make a spy movie and carry whom we like. In fact I probably do understand. Using the bond character generates sales at the box office so the makers want to maximise their profits whilst playing lip service to equality.
 
MFP said:
Is James Bond being white considered outdated? I really can't make sense of your arguments here in all honesty.
Outdated aspects of Fleming's books in the film have more or less have been ironed out and you can see that comparing Dr No. to the Craig films. You've even mentioned how the franchise has moved with the times and evolved to represent modern sensibilities, which it has managed to do with a white James Bond.
Interestingly, the issues of misogyny and race in Bond is considered outdated, what are the modern views on the wanton death, murder and mass destruction that regularly feature? Not really reflective of modern secret services.
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No James Bond being white isn’t outdated. That James Bond it white everytime is outdated though. It’s fictional character.

I wouldn’t have a problem with the next bond being white, I just think it would be good for the world to see a bame/female bond
 
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