PMQs

GazC_MFC said:
Corbyn could win a majority, people should accept that

the left should recognise that that you can’t always have your way, and now starmer in charge they needs to be some acceptance that it’s not ideal but a Labour in power is better than the tories and can try make changes once in power.

what’s the alternative? Tories
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Corbyn couldn't get a majority. He peaked at 262 seats and I don't see why he would have done any better since then, considering he lost 60 seats afterwards.

Like him, tolerate him or loathe him; Starmer or someone like him is the best bet of getting this ridiculous bunch of chancers out. I quite liked Kinnock but it was always going to be someone like Blair who was going to take Labour back into government.
 
GazC_MFC said:
Corbyn could win a majority, people should accept that

the left should recognise that that you can’t always have your way, and now starmer in charge they needs to be some acceptance that it’s not ideal but a Labour in power is better than the tories and can try make changes once in power.

what’s the alternative? Tories
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It depends what you mean by 'could'. Could I be an astronaught? Possibly. Probably similar odds to a Corbyn majority.

The issue is that Corbyn tried twice and failed. His most recent attempt handed an 80 seat majority to Johnson. That's the evidence that many people think he could have never won a majority.
 
There was a moment when Corbyn was leader at PMQ’s against May. At the end a very heated exchange she thrust almost half a her body over the despatch box and with a venomous certainty full of undisguised hatred said.”We will never let you become the leader of this country”
And….so it goes.
 
MolteniArcore said:
It depends what you mean by 'could'. Could I be an astronaught? Possibly. Probably similar odds to a Corbyn majority.

The issue is that Corbyn tried twice and failed. His most recent attempt handed an 80 seat majority to Johnson. That's the evidence that many people think he could have never won a majority.
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It’s pretty much expected that Labour will never win a majority because if Scotland’s. Question is can anyone do better than corbyn in 2017. I doubt it
 
BoroFur said:
Strange one this and a case make your mind up time.

You've been liking posts criticising Starmer for bringing up last year's Christmas parties yet you say that Labour should be hammering home the 'one rule for you, another for us' message. That's exactly what Starmer has been doing!

You say he's useless and unprincipled. Well by your own admission Labour's attacks on Tory sleaze are clearly bringing these issues to the attention of the public via all forms of media. That's hardly useless.

And unprincipled? It's an easy accusation to make simply because you don't like the fella, particularly without providing substantiation.
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I've been liking posts that imply that Starmer is of limited ability. He may well be an effective backroom operator but he can't speak in public. In PMQs he's like Rudy Gestede; give him enough crosses and the odd effort will bounce in off his ****, but he's a poor finisher. He's similarly unimpressive in interviews. This isn't a left/right thing - Corbyn was similarly poor.
I'm not overly concerned with Labour party infighting; all broad parties are factional, shifting coalitions of interests - others just hide it better. I draw the line at his support for apartheid and ethnic cleansing, however.
 
JackG said:
I've been liking posts that imply that Starmer is of limited ability. He may well be an effective backroom operator but he can't speak in public. In PMQs he's like Rudy Gestede; give him enough crosses and the odd effort will bounce in off his ****, but he's a poor finisher. He's similarly unimpressive in interviews. This isn't a left/right thing - Corbyn was similarly poor.
I'm not overly concerned with Labour party infighting; all broad parties are factional, shifting coalitions of interests - others just hide it better. I draw the line at his support for apartheid and ethnic cleansing, however.
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Support for apartheid and ethnic cleansing?

Come on, have you been reading some twitter loon's post 🤣

It's amazing this board, how some posters can somehow derail a thread intended to be critical of Johnson into one even more so of Starmer.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
He doesn't have to, as long as they can get enough votes to stop the Tories getting into government.

The best result for the country would be a coalition.
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Part of me wants to agree with you, but I look at the last 2 coalition Governments we have effectively had and they have both resulted with Tory led administrations. The Lib Dem's effectively sold their soul for a little bit of power and then we had the Tory/DUP deal which ended up equally as bad, if not worse Why does everyone assume the Lib Dems, the Green party and other supposedly centre left parties would be able to effectively work together with Labour and vice versa, it has to be said?
 
GazC_MFC said:
It’s pretty much expected that Labour will never win a majority because if Scotland’s. Question is can anyone do better than corbyn in 2017. I doubt it
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So by that you also mean Starmer could do better than Corbyn in 2017?

I suppose we'll see.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
Corbyn couldn't get a majority. He peaked at 262 seats and I don't see why he would have done any better since then
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I agree and disagree. His peak was 262 but you can't really talk about it seriously without referencing the evidenced sabotage that was going on in the party. Senior staff members deliberately hiding money, and trying to harm the party in the press. Who knows what Corbyn could of got without that?

Don't see why he would have done better since? Sure. I agree. The party is still full of tories in disguise so of course if he was still leader they'd still be sabotaging.

I've said it before on here, but it's like people hammering Brian Clough for not being a good enough striker for boro to win games in his day, despite us now knowing boro defenders were deliberately conceding goals for cash.
 
This thread is why the Tories will always control us. Just full of labour infighting. You'd think, given how bad the current junta is, All you labour supporters would pull together to oust the current regime.

Instead you're arguing about who has the best brand of socilism. Don't you think this would be a disucssion to be had after your party gets into power? Infighting between yourselves stops the chances of you getting in power in the first place and, as such, makes every such argument moot.
 
SmallTown said:
This thread is why the Tories will always control us. Just full of labour infighting. You'd think, given how bad the current junta is, All you labour supporters would pull together to oust the current regime.

Instead you're arguing about who has the best brand of socilism. Don't you think this would be a disucssion to be had after your party gets into power? Infighting between yourselves stops the chances of you getting in power in the first place and, as such, makes every such argument moot.
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I don't think anybody anywhere is claiming Starmer's offering a "brand of socialism"?

Bit rich of you to come on and admonish anyone for letting the tories win as well. :unsure:👀

I disagree on the point about waiting until after "your" party gets in to power for a few reasons.

1) the next elections already lost and Starmer's doomed Labour for quite some time to come. You're effectively telling left wing people they're not allowed to talk about politics for the next 10-15 years.

2) I simply don't see it as my party/your party. Labour was a party whos policies matched my own for a while. Now its a party where people like myself aren't welcome. Ho hum. Are the tories "your" party seeing as you voted them in to power?
 
This thread is a reasonable litmus of why Labour struggle to get into power, the energy and polemic from people who have much more in common than divides is frustrating and whilst I’m not criticising one side over another, as I admire the passion and sincerity of their convictions, I just wish there was a way that we could harness that spirit and combativeness into attacking the real enemy without rather than propagating the fissures within.

Both Corbyn and Starmer have many good qualities as well as faults, I would rather have seen either leading this country over Johnson, the left’s hang up on principle is commendable but it does hamstring us when we’re up against a party that’s only aim is to be in power, the infighting and divide only helps the Conservatives in their default of retaining power at all cost.
 
SuperStu said:
I don't think anybody anywhere is claiming Starmer's offering a "brand of socialism"?

Bit rich of you to come on and admonish anyone for letting the tories win as well. :unsure:👀

I disagree on the point about waiting until after "your" party gets in to power for a few reasons.

1) the next elections already lost and Starmer's doomed Labour for quite some time to come. You're effectively telling left wing people they're not allowed to talk about politics for the next 10-15 years.

2) I simply don't see it as my party/your party. Labour was a party whos policies matched my own for a while. Now its a party where people like myself aren't welcome. Ho hum. Are the tories "your" party seeing as you voted them in to power?
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No they aren't I'm fairly agnostic when it comes to political parties. So you think this infighting and criticising the leader is going to help labour oust the Tories do you?

I'm doing the opposite of telling the left wing to to stop talking politics. I'm telling them to recognise who the actual enemy is. You don't seem to see that it's playing into the Tory hands you criticising the labour leadership. Poltics is ridiculously combative and partisan these days but the Tories know they can get away with so much because people like you would rather attack your own party than try and get them into power.
 
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