I couldn't care less if Labour oust the Tories now. What's the difference to me? All of the policies that would have benefitted me and mine are out. All of the politicians who advocated for them have or are being purged from the party.
PMQs
- Thread starter WeeGord
- Start date
I couldn't care less if Labour oust the Tories now. What's the difference to me? All of the policies that would have benefitted me and mine are out. All of the politicians who advocated for them have or are being purged from the party.
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
I was going to use Jo Cox's line as well, beat me to it..
SmallTown
Well-known member
AH so you want an extended Tory government. You're a brave man to admit that in the current climate but that's fine.
Unravel_Morrison
Well-known member
I have to say I think "the left" gets a very unfair hearing on these sorts of threads. Most of those on the left of the party voted for Starmer in the leadership contest when he was pretending to be a unity candidate. If he'd simply stuck to that after winning he'd have the support of the left now I expect. Nobody else made him purge the former leader, give members money to the saboteurs, and drop all the policies he had a mandate for. These are his decisions.
Of the two of us only one has voted for the tories.
I see very little to be excited about in a Starmer lead placeholder government that enacts tory policy for 5 years only to revert back to yet another 15 year tory monopoly.
It couldn't be less "puritanical". It's entirely transactional. Which is meant to be you centrists speciality. Here I am. Come and triangulate me.
BoroFur
Well-known member
This is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Tories = right wing
Lib Dems = centrist
Labour = left wing
Labour has different shades admittedly but when I hear people talking about the 'right of the party' as if somehow those people are akin to being a Tory it really does boil my ****.
Tories = right wing
Lib Dems = centrist
Labour = left wing
Labour has different shades admittedly but when I hear people talking about the 'right of the party' as if somehow those people are akin to being a Tory it really does boil my ****.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
Blinkers are well and truly on. There would be a significant change of direction if the current Labour party was voted into power.
'All the policies that would have benefitted me' you say? I'd think that Labour would be able, free from the likes of the 1922 Committee, enact some sensible measures to limit the damage that Johnson's Brexit deal is doing. So if you live in the UK that would directly benefit you. There are loads of ways a Labour government would benefit you. You are just too blind to see it - probably out of stubbornness.
yeah yeah loads of policies you just can't see them.I DO have a girlfriend she just goes to another school and you won't know her.
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
Equally, those "to the left", are portrayed as foaming at the mouth commanding heights of the economy extolling, SWP supporting Communists. Neither are true. I will vote Labour because under FPTP, they are the only Party which can get close to denying these corrupt b******s power. If they offer me nothing else, It will be worth it to me for that alone. Tories out.
breakthewallsdown
Well-known member
As a non partisan listener to PMQs I think that if it was a boxing match instead, the ref would have stepped in a long time ago to stop the beating on Boris.
SmallTown
Well-known member
You keep repeating that: but what do you think your current abandoning of the labour party will do, if they were your party? Do you think complaining about Starmer will hinder the tories?
American_Mary
Well-known member
I’ve said that Starmer has faults and has made mistakes, I’m one of those that voted for Corbyn in both leadership campaigns and then Starmer in the last leadership election, and yes I’m disappointed with certain actions he has taken and things he has done, but I still think he’s a much better option as Prime Minister than Johnson, it’s like being thirsty and really wanting an ice cold pint of lager and being offered the choice of water or poison, it would be madness to not accept the water, wouldn’t it ?
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Lefty
Well-known member
Why is it you always respond to any criticism of Corbyn and his team with 'yeah, but whatabout...' ?
Two wrongs don't make a right. I will say it yet again, some of the things some of the (new labour) officials did behind the scenes to Corbyn in 2015-17 were disgraceful, worse than anything Corbyn's LOTO did.
Particularly disgraceful were the actions of Sam Matthews and Harry Gregson, with the full knowledge and blessing of Ian McNicol and Patrick Heneghan - the secret whatsapp group called the Deck Chair Realignment Society. In my opinion they deserved to be sacked and probably kicked out of the Party. Most people at Southside were unaware of their shenanigans, because those four kept it very secret.
It is natural also for a new leader to want his own team in place, so some people being shown the door is bound to happen.
After 2017, once Corbyn had exceeded expectations at the election he was much more secure and then it went too far.
Some talented people were booted out and less talented people replaced them. There was an element of payback from Murphy & co. as well as wanting a team that all had the same ideology and faith in the Project.There was paranoia and distrust. Lastly, there was arrogance, that hubris, that comes from believing you are sooo right, that you get greedy and go too far. The September 2019 fiasco trying to oust Watson by Corbyn, Karie Murphy, Amy Jackson, Jon Lansman, Andi Fox and the Left bloc on the NEC is evidence of that, not to mention their incompetence and the indecisiveness of Corbyn.
It's understandable, but that doesn't make it right, it just makes it understandable. It leads to problems. When you need to make big, important decisions, you need to hear a wide range of opinions, even if you don't like them. From that point of view it is poor practice to surround yourself with yes men. Look at the appalling government we have now, where MP's were selected or driven out of the Conservative Party according to their Brexitiness. Same with the Cabinet. Also, people who are devoted to an ideology too much, such as Brexit, such as the far left, as intelligent as they might be generally, are rendered stupid by excessive devotion to an ideology.
Furthermore, when you narrow the pool you can choose from, you have less talent to choose from.
Now, you might counter all this by saying Starmer appears to be doing the same. You may be right, but that isn't a defence of Corbyn, it is just the same criticism of Starmer, which actually means you accept this is a valid criticism of Corbyn.
The only thing I would say and it remains to be seen if I am right, is this 'purge' by Starmer of the Left appears to be tactical and strategic, rather than spite, revenge or ideological and also brought on by themselves with some frankly stupid choices of hills to die on. Corbyn was toxic by 2019 as was the anti-semitism his Labour Party became associated with. So priority one is addressing that.
I'll say it again, I liked Corbyn, I backed him. I wanted the Project to succeed. It didn't because of stupidity and incompetence. Corbyn wasn't up to the job and nor were his team, who disintegrated as usual into squabbles between smaller and smaller factions.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
This thread is about Starmer. The first time Corbyn was mentioned was on page two where BoroMart introduces him in defence of my criticism of Starmer, followed by BoroFur who mentions him twice on page two.
On page three, BoroFur pops up again with "Corbyn isn't coming back, suck it up buttercup" in reply to me who hadn't mentioned Corbyn once in the whole thread (and still haven't if you discount this post).
Your first criticism of Corbyn is on page four, the day before SuperStu had even joined the conversation.
Of the 47 Corbyn mentions preceding this post the vast majority are from people defending Starmer.
Lefty what you describe as a purge in the Corbyn years is ridiculous compared to whats happened in the party under Starmer. One is a few staffers being replaced. The other is 10s of 1000s of paying members getting the boot because Starmer doesn't want them involved in internal votes.
Please. Starmer's purges are of course ideological. It's all about removing the left. Fair enough it's strategic in that he gets the results he wants now from internal elections. I'm not sure there's much future in a strategy of bankrupting the party personally.
Absolutely fine. I've said on here many times I'm an easy vote for Labour to win. All they need to do is offer me anything at all. Any crumb.
At the moment a Starmer government isn't a glass of water imho. It's more like you want a beer, and can either have a cup of poison or a some watered down poison in a beer glass or you can just say no thanks I'll wait until the barrels changed.
I don't think anything I posit on a football message board will have any wider effect on the UKs political outlook tbh.
AM I wasnt trying to have a go at you earlier. Just couldn't help but notice your earlier post had 1 paragraph saying "I'm not blaming either side..." and then the second paragraph was more "the problem with the left is..."
Like I said. I just think the left within Labour gets quite a harsh hearing. Corbyn's leadership was by far the most accommodating of other internal factions of any Labour leader in my adult life time. Perhaps to a fault given what's been revealed since.
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BoroFur
Well-known member
Wow that's some investigative work you've undertaken there BBG, well done fella
. If none of us knew where your allegiances lie then your post might have some credibility. You've conveniently overlooked your first contribution to this thread which amounted to an outrageous accusation that Starmer doesn't care about dead refugees because he's more interested in asking questions about last year's Downing Street Christmas parties.
You've also made no mention of your toy throwing tantrum labelling anyone supportive of Starmer a 'fanboy'.
And besides, the thread is about PMQs and the respective performances of Johnson and Starmer however you and others seem hell-bent on turning it into a Starmer-bashing thread.
I'll say it again. He's gone, get over it.