PMQs

Soutra said:
I'm not defending the government or trying to deflect criticism at all. I want Labour to form an effective opposition and exert stress on the government. At the moment it looks like one bunch of incompetents criticising another. Every time Labour comes closer in the polls then someone screws up and it's advantage over. The reshuffle - what reshuffle? - just seems like another opportunity missed.
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I said something similar last night to the wife. We finally, finally manage to get ahead in the opinion polls and we hand the bloody Tories an opportunity to have a go back. However if you placed a value on incompetence to both parties you could double Labour's value, multiply it by10 and it would still be less than half the Governments value. Have a reshuffle by all means, but choose a far better time to do it.
 
Starmer made Johnson look like an idiot. Again.

Regarding Christmas parties, and breaking of lock downs not being of interest, I would say exactly the opposite.

Matt Hanc*ck was a shambles throughout the pandemic until he lost his job. It wasn't down to his ineptitude at his job. It was a result of him grabbing some woman's backside.
 
gregorgregorovich said:
The bickering appears to be coming from all sides to me. Lefty, just because some people have views to the left of yours, doesn't necessarily mean they are far left. Someone uses the word fanboy and is replied to with the word buttercup, and this is from people on the same side (roughly) of the political spectrum.Prior to the last election, I spent a lot of my time trying to persuade my friends to vote for a Corbyn led Labour Party. It seems, that at the next election I will have to persuade some other friends to vote for a Starmer led Labour Party. I will do the latter with the same belief and passion that I did the former. Hopefully next time with more success at the Polls. Tories out.
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The bickering is from all sides and in case you haven't been following some of the threads on here, I was and still am very critical of the behaviour of the Right of the Party and the PLP for the way they undermined rather than got behind Corbyn from 2015-17, with the only caveat that they did turn out to be right.

From 2017-19 the Left spent more time purging those who opposed them in the Party than they did making themselves a viable option for government. They left Starmer with some serious problems to address, especially the absolute shame of a ECHR report on anti-semitism, but instead of helping him and attacking the Conservatives, they attack Starmer and help the Tories!

The video is produced by Momentum, which was a broad movement of predominantly the young, that was misappropriated and let down by the hard left. I do praise the video and I happily acknowledge they are good at attacking the Tories when they want to. I could have not posted the video at all if I was that factional. The point needs to be made though, the Left too often fight among themselves rather than the Right and that is the biggest reason why the Conservatives are so often in power. So there was praise and important criticism in the same post.
 
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BlindBoyGrunt said:
That's all he ever does, but if you're going to get him to lie, get him to lie about something people care about, not a party from a year ago.


Perfect opportunity for him to allude to this week's news of the shoddy treatment and possible rift between him and Angela Rayner, and he did, reminding the house that Starmer had organised his own party's celebration and not invited her. That, after initiating a reshuffle behind her back.
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I think you are pretty tone deaf, looking on social media a lot of people care about last years party because of the sacrifices they made
 
GazC_MFC said:
I think you are pretty tone deaf, looking on social media a lot of people care about last years party because of the sacrifices they made
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I think Starmer is both useless and unprincipled but I'm in agreement with GazC here. Almost by definition, if we're reading about PMQs on a footie message board then we have an atypical interest in politics. Most people don't share this degree of involvement, but they don't like our rulers taking the **** out of them. This sort of 'one rule for us' behaviour has, in fashionable shitespeak, cut-through. It's very easy to understand and very difficult to defend. It's like Barnard Castle eye tests. Labour should be hammering home the 'one rule for you, another for us' message.
 
Lefty said:
The bickering is from all sides and in case you haven't been following some of the threads on here, I was and still am very critical of the behaviour of the Right of the Party and the PLP for the way they undermined rather than got behind Corbyn from 2015-17, with the only caveat that they did turn out to be right.

From 2017-19 the Left spent more time purging those who opposed them in the Party than they did making themselves a viable option for government. They left Starmer with some serious problems to address, especially the absolute shame of a ECHR report on anti-semitism, but instead of helping him and attacking the Conservatives, they attack Starmer and help the Tories!

The video is produced by Momentum, which was a broad movement of predominantly the young, that was misappropriated and let down by the hard left. I do praise the video and I happily acknowledge they are good at attacking the Tories when they want to. I could have not posted the video at all if I was that factional. The point needs to be made though, the Left too often fight among themselves rather than the Right and that is the biggest reason why the Conservatives are so often in power. So there was praise and important criticism in the same post.
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I'm just having my 4th stiff single malt whilst watching Everest on the Telly. I'll post again tomorrow when I'm sober.
 
Soutra said:
I'm not defending the government or trying to deflect criticism at all. I want Labour to form an effective opposition and exert stress on the government. At the moment it looks like one bunch of incompetents criticising another. Every time Labour comes closer in the polls then someone screws up and it's advantage over. The reshuffle - what reshuffle? - just seems like another opportunity missed.
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I struggle with the idea that Labour are not an effective opposition. I would suggest that any opposition, no matter the leader or party, would struggle when the Government has a near 80 seat majority.

I think in the circumstances they are as effective as they can be. It would appear that with the polls narrowing that the public are beginning to see this too.
 
JackG said:
I think Starmer is both useless and unprincipled but I'm in agreement with GazC here. Almost by definition, if we're reading about PMQs on a footie message board then we have an atypical interest in politics. Most people don't share this degree of involvement, but they don't like our rulers taking the **** out of them. This sort of 'one rule for us' behaviour has, in fashionable shitespeak, cut-through. It's very easy to understand and very difficult to defend. It's like Barnard Castle eye tests. Labour should be hammering home the 'one rule for you, another for us' message.
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Strange one this and a case make your mind up time.

You've been liking posts criticising Starmer for bringing up last year's Christmas parties yet you say that Labour should be hammering home the 'one rule for you, another for us' message. That's exactly what Starmer has been doing!

You say he's useless and unprincipled. Well by your own admission Labour's attacks on Tory sleaze are clearly bringing these issues to the attention of the public via all forms of media. That's hardly useless.

And unprincipled? It's an easy accusation to make simply because you don't like the fella, particularly without providing substantiation.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
So the building of 40 new hospitals and lying about it doesn't matter to you?
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It didn't even matter to people at the time of the last election did it? Boris ran about shouting 40 new hospitals but it was revealed pre-election that it was something like 38 rebuilds rather than new hospitals where they didn't already exist.
 
gregorgregorovich said:
I said something similar last night to the wife. We finally, finally manage to get ahead in the opinion polls and we hand the bloody Tories an opportunity to have a go back.
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Same last week. Finally on top of the tories for corruption and Starmer digs up David Blunkett of all people to give a job to.
 
BoroFur said:
And unprincipled? It's an easy accusation to make simply because you don't like the fella, particularly without providing substantiation.
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How much substantiation could you need? He's clearly dropped the pledges he was elected Labour leader on. We know now he had some kind of deal with Corbyn and McCluskey that he went back on.

I can understand some folk come to a view that any action/policy is worth it if you gain power. That's fine. But you can't complain when people think of him as unprincipled.
 
Did anyone take note of Rosindell's (Con) question around breaking from European Human Rights Convention to stop migrants and introduce the British Bill of Rights

The PM's response was aggressive on passing the Borders Bill next Tuesday to give them power to send them all back.

Not looking good, the paymasters will have us all on our knees soon enough
 
MolteniArcore said:
I struggle with the idea that Labour are not an effective opposition. I would suggest that any opposition, no matter the leader or party, would struggle when the Government has a near 80 seat majority.
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That's a good point. The perception though is that sleazy bungling Tories are losing support rather than Labour doing anything to take it off them. This sums it up.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com
 
Be interesting to see how much the tory vote shrinks in today's by-election, they won't lose the seat but I think they will be a big cut in their vote.
 
It's a bit frustrating to read about Labour's issues. I think it would help if 'the left' would recognise that Corbyn would never win a majority and the centrists realise they need to take the rest of the party with them. I wish they'd be a bit more ruthless politically like the Tories are.

It's doubly frustrating for me as I'm in a seat which is never going to be anything but solidly Tory and I can't even bring up my MP's voting record.

As for PMQs I still stand by Starmer being right for going after the parties. The media, even Laura K, are going after it. Why should students be getting 10k fines for hosting parties when the PM is doing the same?
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
It's a bit frustrating to read about Labour's issues. I think it would help if 'the left' would recognise that Corbyn would never win a majority and the centrists realise they need to take the rest of the party with them. I wish they'd be a bit more ruthless politically like the Tories are.

It's doubly frustrating for me as I'm in a seat which is never going to be solidly Tory and I can't even bring up my MP's voting record.

As for PMQs I still stand by Starmer being right for going after the parties. The media, even Laura K, are going after it. Why should students be getting 10k fines for hosting parties when the PM is doing the same?
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Corbyn could win a majority, people should accept that

the left should recognise that that you can’t always have your way, and now starmer in charge they needs to be some acceptance that it’s not ideal but a Labour in power is better than the tories and can try make changes once in power.

what’s the alternative? Tories
 
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