Quicksilvera
Well-known member
From a points perspective we are just slightly off, consistency will be the key.
Kieran Scott
- Thread starter MFCJ
- Start date
Middlesbrough123
Well-known member
It’s like looking back in time at fugley ex girlfriendsVery naughty whoever hoofed this old thread.
They’re always a funny read
Redwurzel
Well-known member
I think its far to say VDB and Rogers will be playing at a higher level than Championship in the future.
Dieng before his injury looks a very good Championship keeper and would be playing for Senegal (fancied for Afcom Cup).
We must have dropped league points this season due to the league cup games for example we had 3 players go off injured at Port Vale and another 2 against Chelsea at home and we have played more games this season than any other team in the Championship.
Dieng before his injury looks a very good Championship keeper and would be playing for Senegal (fancied for Afcom Cup).
We must have dropped league points this season due to the league cup games for example we had 3 players go off injured at Port Vale and another 2 against Chelsea at home and we have played more games this season than any other team in the Championship.
indeedido
Well-known member
From a slightly better position last year we went on a stellar run following the recruitment of Archer and Ramsey.
Barlaser did not contribute last season.
I'm sorry but I see no reason why we will go on a similar run, or even one strong enough to make play offs.
I think we have a lot of very average players.
People should know I hope I'm wrong, but we don't look like taking our current GD of +1 and ending the season like last season +28.
After 28 matches last season, Carrick already had us in the Play Off places with 42 points, GD +7, before going on a wonderful run, finishing 4th despite a lethargic ending.
Does anybody seriously see us striking out like that?
We have a massive squad and a triumph of quantity over quality.
jetpropelledgiraffe
Active member
VDB will be in a top European League...probably Germany or France
starplayer
Well-known member
I think he is doing a good job and would hazard a guess that most fans do. Compared to a few years ago there was panic on most forums during transfer windows. Now most fans seem quite relaxed about it. We aren’t buying ready made anymore, which carries risk but we are within touching distance of the play offs, which is what we achieved last season. Given the injuries and constant change of team as a consequence I think it is more than acceptable. During our good run last season we hardly had to change the team. When we did change it, I think from Luton away onwards we were not the same team. We have had so many changes this season we have not been able to get into a rhythm.
As football is pretty much about the here and now I understand the comparison between last season and this but I think we are in such an early stage of development that I wasn’t really expecting that much this year.
As football is pretty much about the here and now I understand the comparison between last season and this but I think we are in such an early stage of development that I wasn’t really expecting that much this year.
Gunslinger
Well-known member
I think this season has been impossible to be consistent for obvious reasons, the injuries have really been one of a kind this season in that regard
Makes you think is it the training why so many players are crocked, it's litterally a full starting XI if you also count in the players in the asia cup
Not really sure what Scott can do about players being injured
Makes you think is it the training why so many players are crocked, it's litterally a full starting XI if you also count in the players in the asia cup
Not really sure what Scott can do about players being injured
LaPennaBianca
Well-known member
Just as well, given the fact we'd be playing the kids if not.
Bruce
Well-known member
I think a fair assessment at this point is good to mixed. By his own account Scott is now in his third window where the whole club is aligned. Prior to that he was fighting with Wilder over priorities and there were a lot of compromises.
Mixed because a lot of the "model" signings have underwhelmed. A model signing is one that is bought with an eye to an increase in value and future sale. Loans and some permanents who have been bought to for immediate use. A player like Dieng will probably move on and we'll probably get more than we paid for him, but the increase in value isn't the aim. Likewise Glover and J Jones will undoubtedly move on but we may break even at best.
Looking at the 5 windows: Winter 22, summer 22 with Wilder. Winter 23, Summer 23, Winter 24 with Carrick.
Model signings (-=waste of time, *****=star performer and/or looking like we can sell for healthy profit. ?=too early to judge)
-Boyd Munce
****McGree
****Forss
-Hoppe
**Barlaser
**Latte Lath
?Azaz
**Engel
?**Bangura
?Gilbert
**Greenwood (option to buy quite cheap)
*Silvera
***Rogers (performances so far *** for performances but weird Villa obsession means he is potentially **** for profit)
****van den Berg
That's not counting the U21 model signings who seem to have all disappeared
Nkrumah, Agyemang, Conteh
That's a lot of signings and, so far we haven't sold anyone that Scott has signed as a "model" except for Conteh. It looks at times as though there's an awful lot of hit and hope.
The loans and non-model signings have been solid to excellent after a ropey start.
Loans
**Balogun
-Connolly
*Muniz
*****Giles
*****Archer
****Ramsey
***Mowatt
****Steffen
?O'Brien
?Ayling
?Thomas
Non-model signings
*****Dieng
***Glover
?J Jones
-Coulson
***Clark (coming on strong after his injury though, probably **** now)
***Smith
***Lenihan
*Roberts
Mixed because a lot of the "model" signings have underwhelmed. A model signing is one that is bought with an eye to an increase in value and future sale. Loans and some permanents who have been bought to for immediate use. A player like Dieng will probably move on and we'll probably get more than we paid for him, but the increase in value isn't the aim. Likewise Glover and J Jones will undoubtedly move on but we may break even at best.
Looking at the 5 windows: Winter 22, summer 22 with Wilder. Winter 23, Summer 23, Winter 24 with Carrick.
Model signings (-=waste of time, *****=star performer and/or looking like we can sell for healthy profit. ?=too early to judge)
-Boyd Munce
****McGree
****Forss
-Hoppe
**Barlaser
**Latte Lath
?Azaz
**Engel
?**Bangura
?Gilbert
**Greenwood (option to buy quite cheap)
*Silvera
***Rogers (performances so far *** for performances but weird Villa obsession means he is potentially **** for profit)
****van den Berg
That's not counting the U21 model signings who seem to have all disappeared
Nkrumah, Agyemang, Conteh
That's a lot of signings and, so far we haven't sold anyone that Scott has signed as a "model" except for Conteh. It looks at times as though there's an awful lot of hit and hope.
The loans and non-model signings have been solid to excellent after a ropey start.
Loans
**Balogun
-Connolly
*Muniz
*****Giles
*****Archer
****Ramsey
***Mowatt
****Steffen
?O'Brien
?Ayling
?Thomas
Non-model signings
*****Dieng
***Glover
?J Jones
-Coulson
***Clark (coming on strong after his injury though, probably **** now)
***Smith
***Lenihan
*Roberts
Rofesleg
Well-known member
We are only 2 points behind last season.
We are very capable of putting a winning run together when key players are back.
We won 6 on the bounce earlier in the season.
One thing that makes the table look a bit odd is that Leeds in 4th place with 57 points would have been 2nd last year. But we are still in touching distance of 5th and 6th.
Game on......
The Card Cheat
Well-known member
That's very negative I think.
We're a hundred percent in the race for the play offs, just played in our first Semi final in 18 years, have a squad full of potential and a great manager.
We've gone from spunking money on has beens, never were's and cloggers like Assombalonga, Fletcher, Gestede, Saville and Flint to players with genuine quality like McGree and Forss and some of the best prospects in the league like VDB, Rogers and Azaz. We're in a really good place in my opinion.
Dynamo Kev
Active member
signed barlaser, silviera and a few other bang average players under scott's watch. but agree we are in a more promising position to push on than we'd normally be in before he joined the recruitment team.
Scott's signings are development players they take a few seasons to get up to speed at which point we then sell them for a profit and buy some more development players. But this is the way football is now with FFP boro are just operating in a kind of stock market investing and selling players that are assets. We try to identify those that with coaching can look half decent and we sell for a profit. It's a shame though as I wish Gibson could go out and invest in ready players now so we could compete for the automatics but we have to work with - 50 million less than them parashoot payment clubs. This league is very unequal and FFP restricts clubs like us. Football has lost the love though as in the current situation we can never compete for major cups again the domination by Chelsea the other night showed that.
The Card Cheat
Well-known member
It's not a weird obsession, what's weird is some fans stubborn refusal to see he's very obviously got massive potential as at least a couple of people have said from day one.
We were an incorrectly disallowed goal from having exactly the same amount of points as last year at this point. That's after losing probably our 5 best players from last year and the worst injury crisis I've known in over 35 years as a Boro fan.
People are far, far to reactive, myself included . We beat Chelsea, we're F***ING brilliant. We get battered by Chelsea and robbed by Rotherham again and we're completely average and going nowhere. The truth is somewhere in-between. We're a decent championship side with players who will improve and an intelligent young manager who'll also get better and play much better football than any of our last 4 or 5 managers. Actually maybe our last 10.
I don't know what we'll do for the rest the season, but I'm not falling into this "we're very unlikely to do anything this season" doom laden camp. I'm just getting behind the best football team with the best fans in the world.
The Card Cheat
Well-known member
Barlaser has been very good recently. He was crap against Chelsea but by God he wasn't alone.
Silvera its far, far too early to say.
I agree with this. People are too unaware of how numbers work. Last season's run was incredible and very unlikely that it will be repeated so comparing where we were this point last season is fruitless because we won't have a tin like last year. We aren't good enough. You can't extrapolate our current position to last season. It's far more likely to be right if you extrapolate it from this season's form that we will finish about where we are now.
I do think the recruitment has improved under Scott but I think the biggest improvement has been that we are no longer buying "ready made" players that are expensive and have no room for improvement so will almost certainly be flops. I'm not sure that takes a director of football to realise that it was a bad policy. We're now using a model that has the intention of selling players for a profit, instead of letting them go for a loss which financially is better but if they aren't good enough to get us promoted has the same outcome.
Other than Rogers, who we haven't actually sold yet, Scott's reign has yet to find a player to be sold for significant profit. We've bolstered our squad with competent championship players but we haven't signed any stars. Maybe Rogers will be the first and others will follow but I think we've signed more players that will be replaced by better players and become worthless rather than losing them because they are sold for a profit.
I really don't get the super positivity around our recruitment. We're midtable and have taken several steps backwards from last season. It didn't make sense that so many people think we have made progress. I know we've been terrible at recruitment for a long time so maybe people are just happy that we are trying something different.
Similarly, I hope I'm wrong and the recruitment strategy works, we improve on the pitch and we make a killing in the transfer market but jury is still out for me.
Bruce
Well-known member
To be clear, I think Rogers is developing fast and could have the same impact on the final section of our season as Ramsey did. I've said at other times that I reckon his "ceiling" is somewhere around Gaston Ramirez's. If I were a Villa fan though I would be puzzled as to why he is suddenly so important. He's going to be on the bench at best and is more an investment for the future than one for now.
From our point of view and the "model" it looks to me that we need to realise around £10m in sales each season. We have already done that this season through Akpom and Payero. Selling Rogers for that much this season is sub-optimal in terms of PSR because we will still need to sell £10m worth next season to get the full three years out of the PSR.
More importantly, for the model to work, we have to building a core to get us promoted who play together over 2-3 seasons. This is what Luton and Coventry were able to do. If we keep selling *all* of players who have a breakthrough season then we'll be spinning our wheels forever.
Next season we have one of our core players, McGree, moving into his last year. This means we need to sell him or he has to agree a new contract and we have to sell someone else.
I think it's too early to say whether "the model" is working. We have bought a LOT of players but so far the only money we have recouped is whatever the sell-on fee for Conteh is: probably around £60K. Next summer, assuming we don't accidentally get promoted, is when we need to see the first signs of it working.
BobUpnDown
Well-known member
difference between this & last season is GOALS, despite what MC says - we are, esp at home, struggling to replace the 40+ goals we had last season in Archer & Akpom.
Archer only joined in Jan so - if - we can get someone in the same mould as him then we may get back on track & push for the remaining playoff places, though competition is even tougher this season..
As for signings we've made some look good & others yet to show more than potential so far.
We are just way too wasteful with our shooting - too many at keeper & more just off target - need to be more clinical..
Archer only joined in Jan so - if - we can get someone in the same mould as him then we may get back on track & push for the remaining playoff places, though competition is even tougher this season..
As for signings we've made some look good & others yet to show more than potential so far.
We are just way too wasteful with our shooting - too many at keeper & more just off target - need to be more clinical..