Hartlepool Constituency Poll

jam69 said:
Around 100k have already paid the price with their lives
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There will be a lot more to come, this government will go back to being Tory before long.

The south won’t be happy with the impression that money is being flung at the north, they think they make all the money down there.
 
newyddion said:
People look at the likes of Hodge, Philips, Streeting & Starmer all slagging of or hindering core labour values, then they looks at the likes of Paul Williams shouting from the rooftops that he will not honour a referendum result, he will do everything in his power to make sure it doesn't happen.. and you know what. Folks just say they are no better than the other lot. I'm going to vote for a pack of chunts.. because at least they are open about it. At least I know where I stand.
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That depends on your definition of core Labour values? Those you quote while not in the Benn, Foot and Corbyn mould are certainly in Wilson, Blair and Attlee mould (the ones who won elections!)
 
HolgateCorner said:
But if the majority of people are happy to listen to lies to give them an excuse to vote Tory (because I don’t think they are all stupid) then the debate is over and we are doomed to dishonest government for the foreseeable future.

We had 10 years of austerity up to the 2019 election because the Tories said public spending has to be brought under control so we didn’t become a ‘basket case’ like Greece. The result was an 80 seat majority. Now Sunak has spent hundreds of billions in 12 months and because he is a Tory, that’s ok, it’s allowed, 49% in that hotbed of prosperity, Hartlepool, think it’s great.

What’s the point of anybody opposing if there is no longer any intelligent reasoning?
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Very few people seem willing to read past a headline. The responses to the poll linked in this thread are testament to that.

As long as the Tories continue to control the media narrative people will simply not see any negatives in what they do. It will always be someone else's fault and if it is their fault it would be worse under Labour.
 
Otto42 said:
That depends on your definition of core Labour values? Those you quote while not in the Benn, Foot and Corbyn mould are certainly in Wilson, Blair and Attlee mould (the ones who won elections!)
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The Corbyn manifesto wouldn't have looked out of place with Attlee, Wilson or even Macmillan!
 
Alan_Breck said:
At the 2019 General Election I think that people in the North East woke up to the fact that Labour has dominated for many years with little or nothing to show for it. We were the manufacturing, heavy engineering heartland of the UK, and that's all gone whilst under decades of local Labour administration for instance Baird couldn't, or wouldn't, save Redcar steel when Blair was PM. The Tories dominance has come about purely on the "I want change" vote as it couldn't be any worse, or can it, only time will tell? In truth this region has been thoroughly neglected since the end of WWII by all parties and taken for granted to secure Westminster seats so is it time for the Giant Hercules to be been reawakened?
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I see your point but the Tories, at any point in their 50 years out of the last 75 in power, could have invested in this region.
 
HolgateCorner said:
But if the majority of people are happy to listen to lies to give them an excuse to vote Tory (because I don’t think they are all stupid) then the debate is over and we are doomed to dishonest government for the foreseeable future.

We had 10 years of austerity up to the 2019 election because the Tories said public spending has to be brought under control so we didn’t become a ‘basket case’ like Greece. The result was an 80 seat majority. Now Sunak has spent hundreds of billions in 12 months and because he is a Tory, that’s ok, it’s allowed, 49% in that hotbed of prosperity, Hartlepool, think it’s great.

What’s the point of anybody opposing if there is no longer any intelligent reasoning?
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There is a huge, huge myth that the Tories are better with the economy than Labour and sadly vast swathes of the electorate seem to have fallen for it. All lies though I'm afraid and so anyone who votes Tory above Labour for reasons of the economy really need to look at the facts.

www.taxresearch.org.uk

The Tories created two thirds of the UK’s national debt

Philip Hammond said that the Conservatives were still clearing the mess that they inherited from Labour during the budget speech last week. That annoyed me. In 2016 I showed that the Tories have been the biggest borrowers since 1946. I thought it worth updating the data: it now covers the...
www.taxresearch.org.uk
 
bear66 said:
The Corbyn manifesto wouldn't have looked out of place with Attlee, Wilson or even Macmillan!
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I don't disagree with that. However, Corbyn was toxic to centre voters because of his history and perceived anti-Britishness. It's not all about the policies it's about the message. I think Starmer was getting the message across that Labour was sensible again, but the Tories have upped their PR game bringing in Mrs Boris and Alegra Strachan. It's not easy getting a left of centre progressive politician elected in an inherently conservative country brought up on memories of how we once ruled the world!
 
The problem with labour is that they have lost their heartlands of Scotland and Wales so the hard core Scottish working class now sees the SNP as their go to same to a lesser extent with wales the birth place of bevan now see other options as better for them.

Labour can no longer rely on these banker seats and same with the north east. Without these it really stands no chance of winning an election.

How they fix this is the big question and I’m not sure their is an answer.
 
newyddion said:
I didn't.. I voted for Phil Wilson despite him being a complete tool and not representing my values in any way shape or form. Williams thought undemocratically and unfortunately there is no other way to put it. He was, like many others working for his own needs he was not representing his constituents. I'm not just making this up to start some chew on a football message board. It's just what happened.


Cronyism? Stephen Kinnock? Hilary Benn? How about calling their own members Trots. Rabble. Dogs. Cranks. Nazi Stormtroopers. Thugs. Antisemites. Bullies. Cultists. Terrorist sympathisers? Politicians on the whole have low moral fibre, racism is rife in both parties and largely accepted. Both parties in their current state punish the poor.
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Whilst you may have point (I not convinced especially if you look at in terms of sliding scales) the difference is that the Tories don’t care what anyone outside of their core thinks. They know that a great many of those who swung to them in 2019 will be too stubborn to change their minds. This really is a Bullingdon Club wet dream, they are literally wrecking the place and burning £50 notes in faces of the public. This is ‘World King’ Boris living out his childhood ambition.
 
Pog said:
Ben Houchen for example has done an excellent job in communicating what the Tories are doing for the area in terms of investment, jobs, infrastructure, etc - lots of economic populism that you would expect to be coming from Labour.

Starmer has no populist message or policies, he’s an empty suit who offers nothing.
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Jobs by 2025 in the run up to Mayoral elections🤔
 
Otto42 said:
That depends on your definition of core Labour values? Those you quote while not in the Benn, Foot and Corbyn mould are certainly in Wilson, Blair and Attlee mould (the ones who won elections!)
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are you comparing Wilson, Blair and Attlee to Hodge, Philips & Starmer?

I would say that Tony Blair pushed the party to far to the right and making the party unelectable. Jess Philips has a very mixed position but her outstanding contribution seems to be that of 'stabbing her colleagues' in the front as she so eloquently put it. Starmer meanwhile after resigning n 2016, painting labour as 'the party of remain' in 2019 has done very little in my view apart from being instrumental in tanking the last two elections.

I can't for the life of me see any of Wilson, Blair or Attlee in either one of them.

In Jess Philips I can see a lot of Jo Swinson , in Keir Starmer I see Chuka Umunna and in Margaret Hodge I see someone who would be much more comfortable on the other side of the floor. Conservative in everything but name.
Basically two hapless, disingenuous lib dems and a dyed in the wool tory.
 
NYboro said:
It won't stop them from imposing more austerity measures on the pretext of paying it, though.
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Many are ok with austerity until it hits them. Some have been convinced that as long as someone else is worse off then fine
 

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Otto42 said:
I don't disagree with that. However, Corbyn was toxic to centre voters because of his history and perceived anti-Britishness. It's not all about the policies it's about the message. I think Starmer was getting the message across that Labour was sensible again, but the Tories have upped their PR game bringing in Mrs Boris and Alegra Strachan. It's not easy getting a left of centre progressive politician elected in an inherently conservative country brought up on memories of how we once ruled the world!
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It was Brexit! It was Brexit! We had MPs from his own party turn against him (obviously it didn't suit them to have their snouts knocked out of the trough) and as a life long critic of the EU was forced to take a pro EU position and it took away all his credibility. Damn right people were angry! People wanted him to stick to his guns.. instead he capitulated to the right and and went on TV to get absolutely trounced by the likes of Philip Scofield of all people!!

He should have fought back, but he was too soft unfortunately.
 
Pog said:
Ben Houchen for example has done an excellent job in communicating what the Tories are doing for the area in terms of investment, jobs, infrastructure, etc - lots of economic populism that you would expect to be coming from Labour.

Starmer has no populist message or policies, he’s an empty suit who offers nothing.
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I agree that Houchen has done a good job, I don’t have any issue with him and he has brought energy to the local economy. He called the airport right and earned himself an opportunity.

He has been given central government funding though that would not have been available to a Labour (or other political party) mayor and that has a fundamental corruptness about it that has all the hallmarks of a third world country.

There are rumours surrounding the Houchen projects which may or may not be true but we are now in a dishonest, no rules type society under Johnson so I would expect most people to just shrug and accept it.
 
newyddion said:
It was Brexit! It was Brexit! We had MPs from his own party turn against him (obviously it didn't suit them to have their snouts knocked out of the trough) and as a life long critic of the EU was forced to take a pro EU position and it took away all his credibility. Damn right people were angry! People wanted him to stick to his guns.. instead he capitulated to the right and and went on TV to get absolutely trounced by the likes of Philip Scofield of all people!!

He should have fought back, but he was too soft unfortunately.
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Again don't disagree with that, Corbyn was a poor politician and a poor leader, certainly no Tony Benn or Nye Bevin. Don't think he ever wanted or expected to be leader. If Labour wants to promote a socialist agenda they need someone in the Greek mould (Yanis Varoufakis) or a serious left wing populist like Paul Mason.
 
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