We aren’t far away from getting this right

Well we have lost more points from winning positions and from unforced errors than any other team in the Championship so we probably should be a lot closer to the Top 4 than we are.
Exactly this. I know he asks them to build from the back and at times we struggle to do it and cause our own problems but on the flip side we’ve scored goals where we’ve got out through the press. Some of the individual errors this year that have no bearing on Carrick are as bad as I’ve seen in 37 years of watching the boro. No teams are giving us a good hiding, we’re more than in this playoff race.
 
We’re on joint points with 6th.
Last season was rubbish. We had one of the worst starts to a season we've ever had. We were bottom of the league near the end of September and we never troubled the playoffs.

This season we're on course for a lower points total than last year.
 
I’m not sure what you mean by “we’re really not far away”. We been dog sh@t for months and Carrick has been here nearly 3 years . How long is this almost there going to take and how much more money do we need to throw at it . We’re one of the highest spenders , highest wages and still look closer to a 7-10 position side than 5-6 side . Carrick is offering little more that being a nice guy who we all want to succeed but is showing no evidence he will
We’re on joint points with 6th. I’d suggest that’s pretty close to where we expected to be despite being ‘dog sh@t’ for months. Did you think we were gonna run away with league like?
 
Last season was rubbish. We had one of the worst starts to a season we've ever had. We were bottom of the league near the end of September and we never troubled the playoffs.

This season we're on course for a lower points total than last year.
You’re right, but as it stands we’re still in the hunt.
 
5th to 14th are seperated by 5 points and we’re at Sheffield utd next game, it’s very feasible we are solidly midtable by the time we play Watford and if that goes badly then MC could be hounded out of the club.
 
I completely agree with this. I think we’ll fall away horrendously now, but in the off chance we somehow bumble our way into the playoffs, there is nothing to suggest Carrick has the tactical nous to win in 3 extremely competitive matches with it all on the line, let alone our keystone cop defence.

We aren’t going to get promoted, so let’s see if a manager can tighten this team up, with a tweaked formation and a more disciplined ethos and culture. I think the risk vs reward tips heavily in the favour of reward.
I'm against him going now but I do feel he won't be here in the summer and that he will walk I'm not sure who would replace him, what are your ideas on a new manager?
 
I'm against him going now but I do feel he won't be here in the summer and that he will walk I'm not sure who would replace him, what are your ideas on a new manager?
A couple of games ago I would have said the same, but it would be yet another Championship rebuild…..again. Hackney would likely leave and Morris won’t be short of PL interest.

A short term deal til the end of the season for Cooper, to be reassessed during the summer. If he doesn’t get us up, we could move on to another manager. If he does get us up, we still wouldn’t have to stick with him if / when someone else becomes available.

Things are just stale now, games and post match interviews on repeat. Booing at almost every home game and more of a concern at away games….which is normally a good yardstick for when it’s nearing the end.
 
A couple of games ago I would have said the same, but it would be yet another Championship rebuild…..again. Hackney would likely leave and Morris won’t be short of PL interest.

A short term deal til the end of the season for Cooper, to be reassessed during the summer. If he doesn’t get us up, we could move on to another manager. If he does get us up, we still wouldn’t have to stick with him if / when someone else becomes available.

Things are just stale now, games and post match interviews on repeat. Booing at almost every home game and more of a concern at away games….which is normally a good yardstick for when it’s nearing the end.
I think injuries have been our biggest issue this season. We've lost key players at crucial moments, and a strong squad is sitting in the physio's room. McGree, when available, has looked half the player he once was, only to get injured again as soon as he returns.

Forss is another who seems a shadow of his former self. In the past, he would have buried the chances he had against Preston, but now I can’t see him playing much more than the occasional substitute appearance.

The ELL saga has dragged on too long, unsettling many players. On top of that, publicly stating we were in the transfer market and implying that players would need to leave hasn’t helped squad morale.

As for sacking the manager, it’s not always the solution. A new manager might not even rate the players we’ve brought in.

I do agree that things aren't right and that we didn't strengthen the right back position and focused mainly on bringing in Giles.
 
So?
If we finish sixth - will you care?
I won’t.
Yes. 6th place is barely an achievement. It almost always means you are the worst team in the playoffs and get knocked out in the semi final.

The myth of the playoffs being a lottery is laughable. The playoffs are won by the best teams, not teams that can't even get to 70 points.
 
I’m not sure what you mean by “we’re really not far away”. We been dog sh@t for months and Carrick has been here nearly 3 years . How long is this almost there going to take and how much more money do we need to throw at it . We’re one of the highest spenders , highest wages and still look closer to a 7-10 position side than 5-6 side . Carrick is offering little more that being a nice guy who we all want to succeed but is showing no evidence he will

Are we one of the biggest spenders? I’d say we’ve received more in transfer fees than we’ve paid out in the three seasons Carricks been here. Not easy when your best players keep getting sold. I read somewhere that our wages are around 9th highest in the Championship, definitely not in the top 4.
 
Yes. 6th place is barely an achievement. It almost always means you are the worst team in the playoffs and get knocked out in the semi final.

The myth of the playoffs being a lottery is laughable. The playoffs are won by the best teams, not teams that can't even get to 70 points.

Is that true though? Since 2011 there’s been eight different occasions when a team finishing 5th or 6th have reached the final, and 3 different teams on doing that have then subsequently been promoted.
It’s logical that you are more likely to do better in the playoffs if you’ve been a better team over the course of the season, that’s obvious. I don’t think it’s true to say though that without exception the best team always wins the playoffs because the facts don’t show that.
Neither do they show that finishing 5th or 6th means you’re almost guaranteed to be eliminated, in the past 15 years it’s been pretty much 50/50.
 
Yes. 6th place is barely an achievement. It almost always means you are the worst team in the playoffs and get knocked out in the semi final.

The myth of the playoffs being a lottery is laughable. The playoffs are won by the best teams, not teams that can't even get to 70 points.
Not sure that’s right Nano
Playoffs are a lottery
We were comfortably in the playoffs but lost against a team which was in a position behind us because we lost our momentum.
Maybe we will have the momentum this time around.
 
Not sure that’s right Nano
Playoffs are a lottery
We were comfortably in the playoffs but lost against a team which was in a position behind us because we lost our momentum.
Maybe we will have the momentum this time around.
Momentum is another myth. The better team beats the form team more often than not.
Is that true though? Since 2011 there’s been eight different occasions when a team finishing 5th or 6th have reached the final, and 3 different teams on doing that have then subsequently been promoted.
It’s logical that you are more likely to do better in the playoffs if you’ve been a better team over the course of the season, that’s obvious. I don’t think it’s true to say though that without exception the best team always wins the playoffs because the facts don’t show that.
Neither do they show that finishing 5th or 6th means you’re almost guaranteed to be eliminated, in the past 15 years it’s been pretty much 50/50.
6th placed hasn't reached the final since Blackpool did it in 2010. The ones in 5th that have done well have tended to be when there hasn't been a huge gap between 4th and 5th. We're on track for 67 points this season. 68 is the lowest anyone has ever made the playoffs with.

It's clutching at straws to think a sub 70 point season has any chance of promotion. Finishing 6th with 68 points would not be an achievement.
 
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Or another view, we are championship cloggers now, and it’ll take time to turn the model into success

Brentford used this model and found themselves in around the playoffs for years before it clicked correctly. I believe we are in the middle of that stage

We haven’t recruited well in defence like you say. I don’t think Carrick has the option to shore it up like he has previous seasons

We’ve made wholesale changes to personal again, when you make that many changes each window things will take time to to click, occasionally you might get lucky and hit the ground running.

There were some positive signs last night until Sunderland worked us out
We've spoken about the club adopting Brentford's model but Brentford spent £7.3m on transfers the season they got promoted. We've spent £25.19m overall this season, and that's not forgetting that we're paying a high % wage contribution to loan Travers, Giles, Doak, Iling-Junior and Iheanacho, who I'd imagine will all be on decent wages.

This is where it becomes conflicted when trying to compare us to Brentford. On one hand, they did sell players for big money and in return, signed players for low transfer fees, but ultimately they didn't end up spending much overall, therefore it would have been easier for the club to manage fans' expectations.

I think both the Chairman and fans have every right to expect the club to finish in a play-off spot at the very least this season, taking into account the money that has been spent, so with that in mind it's difficult for fans to think back to the way Brentford did it and accept that it's going to be a long-term process.
 
Momentum is another myth. The better team beats the form team more often than not.

6th placed hasn't reached the final since Blackpool did it in 2010. The ones in 5th that have done well have tended to be when there hasn't been a huge gap between 4th and 5th. We're on track for 67 points this season. 68 is the lowest anyone has ever made the playoffs with.

It's clutching at straws to think a sub 70 point season has any chance of promotion. Finishing 6th with 68 points would not be an achievement.
Total bull****. Only weeks before the Coventry Semi Final Boro were probably the best team in the league.

Ramsey got injured against Norwich (a game Boro were outstanding in) and never played again. Forss injured in the same game. Akpom then rested in a couple of games. By the time the Semi Finals came about we had lost that zip in our passing. It was particularly noticeable during the home game. We arguably should have won the away game 1-0.

Momentum had shifted and we weren’t quite on it.
 
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We've spoken about the club adopting Brentford's model but Brentford spent £7.3m on transfers the season they got promoted. We've spent £25.19m overall this season, and that's not forgetting that we're paying a high % wage contribution to loan Travers, Giles, Doak, Iling-Junior and Iheanacho, who I'd imagine will all be on decent wages.

This is where it becomes conflicted when trying to compare us to Brentford. On one hand, they did sell players for big money and in return, signed players for low transfer fees, but ultimately they didn't end up spending much overall, therefore it would have been easier for the club to manage fans' expectations.

I think both the Chairman and fans have every right to expect the club to finish in a play-off spot at the very least this season, taking into account the money that has been spent, so with that in mind it's difficult for fans to think back to the way Brentford did it and accept that it's going to be a long-term process.
It’s valid what you are saying, but when people mention the Brentford model or the Brighton model it’s not exactly following it, but a version of it

It’s funny you pick that season in isolation. To put into context your argument, but the season before the spent 35 million on transfers

Also the transfer market today isn’t comparable to 4/5 years ago
 
Interesting thread. Not surprisingly split down the middle by the seasons expectations.

There are some fallacies being mooted. Our spend if talked about but not net spend, which is the correct metric to use.

The new manager bounce. There have been several articles published that bust this particular myth.

For me, we are defensively weak, no denying that. It depends on what the reasons for that are, I suppose.

We haven't been able to field a back four consistently all season and we do have injuries all over the pitch, moreso than the teams around us.

We didn't strengthen at the back but is that because we couldn't identify players that fit our model at the back. It's unlikely anyone at the club thought we couldn't do with a cdm, a rb or a decent ball playing CB. But to bring any of those in, they have to be available and fit our model.

Finally, the model allows for our best players to be sold mid season. I understand why, but it's frustrating and disruptive.
 
I wish I could agree we're close to everything falling into place. I do fear we miss out on the playoffs, or we crumble if we do somehow manage to finish 5th or 6th.

Yet - perhaps weirdly - I'd stick with Carrick next season regardless.

Feels like I'm punishing myself in a way but I want him to get it right and be here for several more seasons.
 
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