We aren’t far away from getting this right

[festa5]

Whereas Burnley play it almost as a 4-5-1. As soon as they lose possession their no10 drops into CM and gets behind the ball. Their wide players get behind the ball and support their fullbacks. They don't commit their fullbacks forward anywhere near as high as we do.

Fairly similar to Karanka that, although probably more negative even.

The sweet spot for me was the play-off final Karanka side. It was almost a 442 at times with Vossen only just behind Bamford.

I preferred it with Tomlin on the left and Albert on the right. Plenty of flair in that side, but the wide players were expected to work their nuts off and track back and Vossen and Bamford pressed very effectively.

Basically the attacking players had big jobs to do defensively. There is absolutely no reason you can't play in possession the way Carrick wants but have the forwards working off the ball in a fairly similar way to how Karanka had us set up.

I like Azaz, but he wouldn't last 5 mins playing like he has been if Karanka was in charge. He'd demand much more work rate out of possession.

 

[ForssAwakens]

“we’re fifth!”

“we’re sixth!”

“we’re only seventh on goal difference!”

i wonder what it’ll be next

That’s the spirit

 

[B_G]

I like Azaz, but he wouldn't last 5 mins playing like he has been if Karanka was in charge. He'd demand much more work rate out of possession.

This has become more and more noticeable as the season has gone on.
I think its an either/or.

Either Azaz (or another no10) works back to make a midfield 3 when we lose possession. This allows Hackney and Morris to shift across and help cover the wide positions and still leaves 2 in the middle.

or:
the 2 wide players work back in and make a midfield 4. Hackney and Morris can stay more compact in the midfield then.

At the moment, neither of these things happen. We leave Morris and Hackney too stretched. Hackney shifts across to help LB and leaves Morris with too much space to cover in the middle and vice vera when Morris shifts across to help RB.

The midfield take a lot of stick at times this season but they are far too stretched.

 

[ForssAwakens]

I agree he got his tactics completely wrong against Chelsea away, but on the flip side he got them spot on in the home leg against Chelsea and against Villa in the FA cup, when we were very unlucky not to come away with a draw.
I think it’s a bit of a myth that Carrick won’t ever change tactics. He changed them for both of those games I mentioned. He changed tactics for Leicester at home last year, he changed for a good part of last season when we went to 5 at the back, and we were successful in doing that.
Whether he is capable of getting us to the Premier League is debatable, but if he did I don’t think he’d stubbornly stick to one way of playing regardless of results.

I’m surprised this hasn’t got more likes to be honest. But I guess when people are presented with facts that doesn’t fit their narrative….

 

[ForssAwakens]

We were definitely unlucky against Villa I will give you that, as for Chelsea at home they missed 3 sitters of which 2 of those we gifted to them on the edge of our own box, we played well but on any other day they put those chances away, Cole Palmer definitely had an off day.
He changed to a back 3 home and away v Leicester last season and got results, he only played a back 3/5 in a small handful of other games before reverting back to his preferred
4-2-3-1.
He is too ridged in his tactics.
And doesn’t have the players to implement them.

I think we can expect to give away clear cut changes when playing a team from the premier league that has a one of the best midfielders in the country playing for them

Injuries and lack of personal don’t allow us to deploy a back 5 all that often

 

[MickaelDebevePhenomenal]

This has become more and more noticeable as the season has gone on.
I think its an either/or.

Either Azaz (or another no10) works back to make a midfield 3 when we lose possession. This allows Hackney and Morris to shift across and help cover the wide positions and still leaves 2 in the middle.

or:
the 2 wide players work back in and make a midfield 4. Hackney and Morris can stay more compact in the midfield then.

At the moment, neither of these things happen. We leave Morris and Hackney too stretched. Hackney shifts across to help LB and leaves Morris with too much space to cover in the middle and vice vera when Morris shifts across to help RB.

The midfield take a lot of stick at times this season but they are far too stretched.

or you play a higher line and compact the space...... which we can't do as our CB's are slow and have the turning circle of oil tankers.

 

[MickaelDebevePhenomenal]

I'm going to pick a bit of this which is really off topic but it's something that I am quite passionate about.
It doesn't matter what formation you play in kids football, but you should always look to play out from the back to develop ALL the kids in your team. Once you start encouraging kids to hoof a football long and just kick it anywhere, you have stopped prioritising development and started prioritising results.
Nothing worse than seeing 8 year old goalkeepers kicking the ball out of their hands over and over again hoping that eventually their striker toe pokes a couple in. Same can be said at 10 year old and 12 year old.
Get the ball on the floor and have ALL your team involved in trying to play proper football. Even if it means losing a few goals or games along the journey. All of the kids will learn more from this and become better footballers.

Off topic but its a great point. Not only the kids in academies, but The kids in grassroots, especially the top end here on Teesside, now have access to some unbelievable external training from some great coaching companies and individuals.

 

[B_G]

Off topic but its a great point. Not only the kids in academies, but The kids in grassroots, especially the top end here on Teesside, now have access to some unbelievable external training from some great coaching companies and individuals.

There's still a bit of a dinosaur mentality amongst parents/grandparents when it comes to youth development in football in the country. The biggest problem is they expect the kids game to look like the mens game. And they expect kids to make the same decisions men will make.

I was coaching a game last weekend with a team of very talented u8s. Out of the 10 players on the pitch, 5 of the kids were signed to academies and the others wouldn't be far away.
One of the defenders received the ball from the GK and was pressurised immediately, he tried to turn out of pressure and pass across his own goal. It was intercepted and they conceded.
To which I heard a comment behind me from a players grandparent. "Why has he got them f4nnying about at the back like this, passing across their own goal. If in doubt, kick it out."

The kid didn't make a great decision. He's 7 year old. He's very talented. 9 times out of 10, he will protect that ball and make a better decision. He will learn from this one time he made a poor one. He did the first bit great by the way. He just chose the wrong pass after initially escaping pressure.

That player is a very talented young lad.
He could easily be ruined by these sorts of comments from the sideline. I hear them so so often and it can cripple confidence.
Or comments from parents/grandparents in the car that will criticise a bad decision because they have conceded a goal.

The team still went on and won the game 3-1 by the way.
They are unbeaten in 16 games playing this way at a very competitive level.
But even if that wasn't the case. This is how players get better. By trying to protect the ball every time they get it.

 

[Nano]

I’m surprised this hasn’t got more likes to be honest. But I guess when people are presented with facts that doesn’t fit their narrative….

We were forced to change formations because we had no players fit at the time. We had no right backs left so Jones was playing there. We had no centre backs so Engel was playing CB the week before with Bangura LB. Against Chelsea we went with Jones, VDB, Fry, Engel and Bangura because Engel isn't a good enough centre back to play in a 2 against a team worth £1bn. We had no left sided attacker so Hackney was playing further forwards. Bangura and Lath got injured so we had to go back to 4 at the back the following week because we didn't have enough defenders left. We weren't playing 5 at the back in the 2nd leg. Against Leicester we were playing Silvera up front. It wasn't a tactical choice to play more defenders, we were just putting a team on the pitch because we were down to the bare bones. Jones had been injured against Rotherham so we had no right sided midfielders.

Those changes weren't choices, they were forced. This makes it more frustrating though because it shows that Carrick can have us set up in another formation and be successful but he's choosing not to.

 

[Powerhouse]

We all still love him doe as he will eventually get it right hang in there it might not be this year or next year but i will give him the time he needs.

 

[allied_assault]

“we’re fifth!”

“we’re sixth!”

“we’re only seventh on goal difference!”

i wonder what it’ll be next

We're fifth!

 

[Hicktonpen10]

This has become more and more noticeable as the season has gone on.
I think its an either/or.

Either Azaz (or another no10) works back to make a midfield 3 when we lose possession. This allows Hackney and Morris to shift across and help cover the wide positions and still leaves 2 in the middle.

or:
the 2 wide players work back in and make a midfield 4. Hackney and Morris can stay more compact in the midfield then.

At the moment, neither of these things happen. We leave Morris and Hackney too stretched. Hackney shifts across to help LB and leaves Morris with too much space to cover in the middle and vice vera when Morris shifts across to help RB.

The midfield take a lot of stick at times this season but they are far too stretched.

Spot on analysis here. The number of times this season we have been outnumbered in midfield is criminal. Personally I think the two wide players need to assist far more. Doak is still learning the game and the personnel on the left changes by the game.

 

[Steve Bee]

This has become more and more noticeable as the season has gone on.
I think its an either/or.

Either Azaz (or another no10) works back to make a midfield 3 when we lose possession. This allows Hackney and Morris to shift across and help cover the wide positions and still leaves 2 in the middle.

or:
the 2 wide players work back in and make a midfield 4. Hackney and Morris can stay more compact in the midfield then.

At the moment, neither of these things happen. We leave Morris and Hackney too stretched. Hackney shifts across to help LB and leaves Morris with too much space to cover in the middle and vice vera when Morris shifts across to help RB.

The midfield take a lot of stick at times this season but they are far too stretched.

Jones did the job well didn't he. Also, look how bad Ayling looks without his protection. We have a team full of people who can't tackle and apparently, don't have to because it's not their role.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

22 points off the top.
17 points off 2nd and 3rd.
14 points off 4th.
17 points off 22nd.
19 points off 24th.

Home form 24/25: P16 W7 D5 L4
Home form 23/25 + 24/25: P39 W17 D9 L13

There is some good work going on off the field though I’m starting to think some people are getting bogged down with ‘the model’ and focusing on transfer business instead of performances and results. We’re three years into ‘the model’ and we’ve sold Rogers and ELL for big cash - Tav, Spence and Akpom were brought through or signed prior to ‘the model’ being established (though the staff deserve credit for finally getting good fees for our players).

This is a huge summer for the club because they really need to show they know how to build a functioning football team, not just stockpile attacking players. There needs to be evidence the club and Carrick are aligned with how they want to play and what sort of player we need to play it. We are light at full back, centre back, central midfield and, once the loans depart, down both wings and up front. I think this season has been a very, very disappointing season and we are showing signs of regression under Carrick.

Like I say, we are seeing good stuff off the pitch in lots of ways but on it, in my opinion, we are starting to tread water again. We have been well below expectations so far, as the points totals at the top of this post show and to be perfectly honest we’ve been absolutely well off it not just this season but the last one as well.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Played Adi. Your first ton for ages I’d guess!

Thanks - still got it even in the twilight of my career.

 

[speckyget]

There's still a bit of a dinosaur mentality amongst parents/grandparents when it comes to youth development in football in the country. The biggest problem is they expect the kids game to look like the mens game. And they expect kids to make the same decisions men will make.

I was coaching a game last weekend with a team of very talented u8s. Out of the 10 players on the pitch, 5 of the kids were signed to academies and the others wouldn't be far away.
One of the defenders received the ball from the GK and was pressurised immediately, he tried to turn out of pressure and pass across his own goal. It was intercepted and they conceded.
To which I heard a comment behind me from a players grandparent. "Why has he got them f4nnying about at the back like this, passing across their own goal. If in doubt, kick it out."

The kid didn't make a great decision. He's 7 year old. He's very talented. 9 times out of 10, he will protect that ball and make a better decision. He will learn from this one time he made a poor one. He did the first bit great by the way. He just chose the wrong pass after initially escaping pressure.

That player is a very talented young lad.
He could easily be ruined by these sorts of comments from the sideline. I hear them so so often and it can cripple confidence.
Or comments from parents/grandparents in the car that will criticise a bad decision because they have conceded a goal.

The team still went on and won the game 3-1 by the way.
They are unbeaten in 16 games playing this way at a very competitive level.
But even if that wasn't the case. This is how players get better. By trying to protect the ball every time they get it.

I guess the grandad, like me, grew up at a time when if you passed across your own penalty area you'd get the games teacher's size 10 up your àrse. Hard to shake what was drilled into you in the formative years.