The 9am figures not disclosed yet?

[dooderooni]

Just remember the 40,000 lives already lost to this virus before you even countenance throwing their memories and sacrifice onto the bonfire of changing government plans again. The very fact that we are attempting to release lockdown measures while we still have so many infections and deaths and no immediate measures in place to track, trace and isolate so we can stop unnecessary infections is abhorrent. Abandoning all those deaths, plus those who've died as an indirect result of policy, should be considered as an insult to everyone, from those families affected, the ones who've sacrificed so much to take care of others and also those who have suffered catastrophic effects to their businesses by following government policy.
It is up to the government to step up their game, do what they keep promising to do and stop treating it like some sort of sociology experiment.

 

[Billy Horner]

Which we were told would happen by the Whitty and Valance if you remember back to the start.

Go on then, I’ll fall for it, what did they say?

Whatever it was, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that if the death rate begins to fall, but then stops falling, that would be a good sign.

Also, as scientists, whatever they thought or said about this virus a few months ago, they are perfectly entitled to change their opinions once more information has become available about how it actually behaves in practice. It’s being widely reported that it was Whitty himself who refused to lower the current threat level from 4 to 3, despite Johnson announcing that they were going to just that the day before.

 

[SmallTown]

Except you forget what Mr Whitty said at the start.

I genuinely don't know what point you are trying to prove now. You are against the lockdown, I understand that. I just don't understand, when you can see how other countries have come out of the lockdown, and the deadly shambles that is our country coming out you can defend it?

I genuinely can't believe you're happy with the lockdown easing like this and the high death rate that is coming with it. Do you not think we should have learned from pretty much all the other countries that came out of lockdown before us?

 

[Laughing]

At what point have I written that I am happy about people dying? Please directly quote me.

People die every day from many different things

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/05/how-many-people-die-each-day-covid-19-coronavirus/

150,000 on average every day worldwide. But it seems you (and many others) are only bothered about the ones who are unlucky enough to die from covid-19 related causes. People die and it's a sad fact if life, infact it's the only thing we are promised. You are born, you live, you die. People have suddenly developed this misconception that we live forever, we do not. Constantly fearing death every day is not healthy and is liable to cause more damage to your health than covid-19.

You live in the London area yes or have I confused you with someone else? Why do you think you haven't caught covid-19 yet? Have you left your house at all since the time Johnson shut the country down?

Herd immunity was the government's goal from the start and they cocked up by changing their plan after they had already started it.

But instead of locking down the elderly and most vulnerable of society they locked everybody down. It's fairly bloody obvious that cases and deaths would go up as measures have been loosened off.

Randy your response is, quite frankly, insulting. You can disagree without assuming none of us care about deaths that are non-covid. The start of that post is very unpleasant.

 

[Randy]

Go on then, I’ll fall for it, what did they say?

Whatever it was, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that if the death rate begins to fall, but then stops falling, that would be a good sign.

Also, as scientists, whatever they thought or said about this virus a few months ago, they are perfectly entitled to change their opinions once more information has become available about how it actually behaves in practice. It’s being widely reported that it was Whitty himself who refused to lower the current threat level from 4 to 3, despite Johnson announcing that they were going to just that the day before.

Billy, wether you believe it or you are not the oracle of knowledge when it comes to covid-19. Whilst I amongst others appreciate your daily graphs and figures even you are not reporting the full story.

Whitty said,

“For the great majority of people this will be a mild or moderate disease, anything from a sniffle to having to go to bed for a few days, rather like with mild flu.
“And there are some people who will get it with no symptoms at all, but for a minority of people – and this is particular in people who are older people or people with pre-existing health conditions – the risk is higher"

Has that changed now?
Have we seen any hospitals with people piled up in hospital corridors in the past few weeks? Where is the constant noise of sirens like we saw in Italy with an actual lockdown?
Where are the mass graves?

I'll get told "what about the excess deaths" yet when I post a graph comparing the excess deaths of 2017's flu season and the current time now it's not the same because one was a vaccinated flu and the other wasn't. That argument doesn't even make sense, a flu that had a vaccine STILL had the same excess deaths. What would that chart have looked like without a vaccine for the flu? A lot worse, yet nobody battered an eyelid in 2017 did they?

 

[Randy]

Randy your response is, quite frankly, insulting. You can disagree without assuming none of us care about deaths that are non-covid. The start of that post is very unpleasant.

Why is it insulting?

It's a fact of life that death is inevitable. If you find that insulting that isn't my problem.

Is covid-19 naturally occuring or man made in your opinion? I'll wait until you answer before you ask why that's relevant or not.

 

[Laughing]

Why is it insulting?

It's a fact of life that death is inevitable. If you find that insulting that isn't my problem.

Is covid-19 naturally occuring or man made in your opinion? I'll wait until you answer before you ask why that's relevant or not.

It is insulting because you say that some of us don't care about more general causes of death, not that death is inevitable. As I said the start of the post was very unpleasant in labelling folks in that way.

I have no idea whether the virus is man made or natural. Given it exists in nature, and has for some time, it seems likely that it is a natural mutation, rather than man made.

 

[SmallTown]

Why is it insulting?

It's a fact of life that death is inevitable. If you find that insulting that isn't my problem.

Is covid-19 naturally occuring or man made in your opinion? I'll wait until you answer before you ask why that's relevant or not.

I think maybe, your problem with he comprehension of the situation could be because you don't understand what's going on. You keep comparing it to other diseases. Maybe you just don't get that this is a brand new virus? We don't know how it will mutate, we don't have any natural immunity to it and we don't know what the long term evolution of the pandemic will be. That's why we are putting extraordinary measures in place to try and control it and why we don't do that for, say, flu, or any form of cancer.

 

[Randy]

I think maybe, your problem with he comprehension of the situation could be because you don't understand what's going on. You keep comparing it to other diseases. Maybe you just don't get that this is a brand new virus? We don't know how it will mutate, we don't have any natural immunity to it and we don't know what the long term evolution of the pandemic will be. That's why we are putting extraordinary measures in place to try and control it and why we don't do that for, say, flu, or any form of cancer.

But why don't we put extraordinary measures in place to prevent deaths or cases of flu and cancer?

You say we are coming out of lockdown too fast? By that I'm assuming you will be boycotting the thousands and thousands of businesses that are preparing to open or are open now? That's a relavent point because if you aren't then you are endorsing the release of the lockdown measures.

 

[dooderooni]

You say we are coming out of lockdown too fast? By that I'm assuming you will be boycotting the thousands and thousands of businesses that are preparing to open or are open now? That's a relavent point because if you aren't then you are endorsing the release of the lockdown measures.

I for one won't be rushing to go to anywhere where I don't feel safe, not just for my own health, but for those around me who I know or don't know. I can quite easily not endorse lifting lockdown and still go places, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Randy]

I for one won't be rushing to go to anywhere where I don't feel safe, not just for my own health, but for those around me who I know or don't know. I can quite easily not endorse lifting lockdown and still go places, they are not mutually exclusive.

Of course they are mutually exclusive. June 15th every non essential shop will be allowed to open for business. 99.9% of those still in business will open. Buying from those shops means you agree with them opening.

Also what is this lockdown you speak of? We've never actually been in one when you think about it compared to Wuhan.

 

[SmallTown]

But why don't we put extraordinary measures in place to prevent deaths or cases of flu and cancer?

You say we are coming out of lockdown too fast? By that I'm assuming you will be boycotting the thousands and thousands of businesses that are preparing to open or are open now? That's a relavent point because if you aren't then you are endorsing the release of the lockdown measures.

I thought I'd explained it clearly. I guess you really don't understand.

Ok in the case of flu, we have vaccines against certain strains so we can protect the more vulnerable in society with free shots and help keep the virus under control.

Cancer is, as you hopefully know, I myriad of different diseases and pretty much known of them are contagious so a lockdown would have zero affect at all.

Those are the differences.

Maybe once you start to understand what is going on you'll get my confusion at your wanting to end the lockdown prematurely.

 

[Randy]

No you don't get it.
The flu season in 2017 WITH a vaccine killed similar numbers around Europe to covid-19 deaths. Now without a vaccine it's fair to say that number of flu related deaths, and yes flu kills young and old, would be higher than current covid-19 deaths. As stated before a lot of cancers can be prevented, lung cancer caused by smoking for example, so why don't we "lockdown" smoking or in cases of liver and kidney cancer, "lockdown" sales of alcohol?

My intentions are not to change people's minds. People have already made their own minds up which is one of the great things about freedom and free will. Unfortunately freedom and free will IS slowly being eroded which more and more people are finally beginning to see.

 

[dooderooni]

And by the way, I'm not pro or

Of course they are mutually exclusive. June 15th every non essential shop will be allowed to open for business. 99.9% of those still in business will open. Buying from those shops means you agree with them opening.

Also what is this lockdown you speak of? We've never actually been in one when you think about it compared to Wuhan.

You're in danger of becoming a parody Randy. We have been in lockdown, regardless of how hard or lax you think it is compared to other implementations. It's been part of your posting regarding Sweden, excess deaths, impact on businesses and anything else pandemic related.
As for me buying stuff meaning I'm condoning the early lifting of restrictions, are you serious? As I said, I'll be picking and choosing where and when I go to get only the stuff I need. I will not be queuing for McDonald's or Primark or JD Sports or Costa or Greggs or innumerable other places simply because they are open, but if I do have need to go somewhere I will do so when it is safe to do so in my opinion. If you catch me wandering around the shops aimlessly then get back to me.

 

[Billy Horner]

Billy, wether you believe it or you are not the oracle of knowledge when it comes to covid-19. Whilst I amongst others appreciate your daily graphs and figures even you are not reporting the full story.

Whitty said,

“For the great majority of people this will be a mild or moderate disease, anything from a sniffle to having to go to bed for a few days, rather like with mild flu.
“And there are some people who will get it with no symptoms at all, but for a minority of people – and this is particular in people who are older people or people with pre-existing health conditions – the risk is higher"

Has that changed now?
Have we seen any hospitals with people piled up in hospital corridors in the past few weeks? Where is the constant noise of sirens like we saw in Italy with an actual lockdown?
Where are the mass graves?

I'll get told "what about the excess deaths" yet when I post a graph comparing the excess deaths of 2017's flu season and the current time now it's not the same because one was a vaccinated flu and the other wasn't. That argument doesn't even make sense, a flu that had a vaccine STILL had the same excess deaths. What would that chart have looked like without a vaccine for the flu? A lot worse, yet nobody battered an eyelid in 2017 did they?

Firstly, I don’t claim to be an oracle on Covid-19 at all. I put a few statistics up for the benefit of those who are interested and, from time to time, post my interpretation of what they are showing, particularly in terms of trends.

In the case of the numbers of new deaths, there is clear evidence that the previously consistent fall in numbers since the peak has stalled in the past 10 days. That may be a blip, a plateauing or the beginning of a reversal. We don’t yet know, but it’s clear from the numbers that it has happened.

I don’t disagree with your quote from Chris Whitty at all. In fact, I posted over the past couple of days that there is evidence of very mild/asymptomatic infection from the ONS surveillance survey.

However, I fail to see the relevance of this quote in a discussion about the trend in death numbers. By definition, these are very severe cases so that quote simply doesn’t apply to them.

 

[SmallTown]

No you don't get it.
The flu season in 2017 WITH a vaccine killed similar numbers around Europe to covid-19 deaths. Now without a vaccine it's fair to say that number of flu related deaths, and yes flu kills young and old, would be higher than current covid-19 deaths. As stated before a lot of cancers can be prevented, lung cancer caused by smoking for example, so why don't we "lockdown" smoking or in cases of liver and kidney cancer, "lockdown" sales of alcohol?

My intentions are not to change people's minds. People have already made their own minds up which is one of the great things about freedom and free will. Unfortunately freedom and free will IS slowly being eroded which more and more people are finally beginning to see.

I think you need to take a step back and think about what you are saying. I've explained why the lockdown should stay for a bit longer and (I thought clearly) explained the difference between the is and flu and CERTAINLY between this and cancer. Your last response shows you haven't comprehended what I've told you yet. You are still making the same false arguments. Just try and think please and work out why this is different.

 

[Randy]

I think you need to take a step back and think about what you are saying. I've explained why the lockdown should stay for a bit longer and (I thought clearly) explained the difference between the is and flu and CERTAINLY between this and cancer. Your last response shows you haven't comprehended what I've told you yet. You are still making the same false arguments. Just try and think please and work out why this is different.

I think we need to explore why you think everybody should be in lockdown just because you want to stay locked down?

That's fine by the way, I have no issue with those who want to stay at home, but why do you think an entire nation should stay at home when if by some small chance those who come out of lockdown and possibly catch this virus (which would be really unlucky considering its estimated that 0.1% of the population currently have it) wouldn't be coming into contact with you anyways?

 

[SmallTown]

I think we need to explore why you think everybody should be in lockdown just because you want to stay locked down?

That's fine by the way, I have no issue with those who want to stay at home, but why do you think an entire nation should stay at home when if by some small chance those who come out of lockdown and possibly catch this virus (which would be really unlucky considering its estimated that 0.1% of the population currently have it) wouldn't be coming into contact with you anyways?

I don't WANT to stay locked down. I'm saying it's too early to come out of lockdown.

The sheer, undeniable facts are that over 300 people are dying EVERY DAY and have been for the past 2 weeks. Lockdown significantly reduces the chance of the infection been passed on. Therefore it'll reduce the amount of people dying.

I feel we are having a circular argument here. You have ignored my explanation of why it is different form the others disease you have mentioned. I've also pointed out, numerous times, that the death rate is too high. In continuing to argue for an ending to lockdown you are implicitly stating that you think 300 people a day dying is ok. We can go around and around on this but this is how it is.

 

[Randy]

I don't WANT to stay locked down. I'm saying it's too early to come out of lockdown.

The sheer, undeniable facts are that over 300 people are dying EVERY DAY and have been for the past 2 weeks. Lockdown significantly reduces the chance of the infection been passed on. Therefore it'll reduce the amount of people dying.

I feel we are having a circular argument here. You have ignored my explanation of why it is different form the others disease you have mentioned. I've also pointed out, numerous times, that the death rate is too high. In continuing to argue for an ending to lockdown you are implicitly stating that you think 300 people a day dying is ok. We can go around and around on this but this is how it is.

Again I am not saying people dying is fine I just don't obsess about it. You didnt answer the question. Why are you so bothered about people coming out of lockdown now if you personally don't believe it's safe to do so? You would have no contact with these people so would not be at risk of a virus that is on its way out or anything else they might be carrying.

 

[hopesoboro]

Again I am not saying people dying is fine I just don't obsess about it. You didnt answer the question. Why are you so bothered about people coming out of lockdown now if you personally don't believe it's safe to do so? You would have no contact with these people so would not be at risk of a virus that is on its way out or anything else they might be carrying.

Is your new car being delivered SmallTown?