The 9am figures not disclosed yet?

Laughing

Well-known member
I think it is too early to end lockdown too. I know there are some people sufferring during lockdown, and I feel for them. For me, by far the lesser of the two evils is lockdown. Unfortunately our lockdown was too slow and not hard enough.
 

Billy Horner

Well-known member
That's why you need to look at the 7-day average more than the individual daily numbers. The average smooths out these fluctuations caused by administrative processes.

For information, the 7-day average went up today - again. In fact, it's pretty much identical to where it was 11 days ago, so the decline in new deaths has plateaued at best.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
That's why you need to look at the 7-day average more than the individual daily numbers. The average smooths out these fluctuations caused by administrative processes.

For information, the 7-day average went up today - again. In fact, it's pretty much identical to where it was 11 days ago, so the decline in new deaths has plateaued at best.
Want to unlike that. But like the explanation
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
I think it is too early to end lockdown too. I know there are some people sufferring during lockdown, and I feel for them. For me, by far the lesser of the two evils is lockdown. Unfortunately our lockdown was too slow and not hard enough.
Lockdown was about flattening the curve. It was never once stated that it was to kill the virus (which it will probably kill itself off).
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
That's why you need to look at the 7-day average more than the individual daily numbers. The average smooths out these fluctuations caused by administrative processes.

For information, the 7-day average went up today - again. In fact, it's pretty much identical to where it was 11 days ago, so the decline in new deaths has plateaued at best.

Screenshot_20200605-230245.png
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Lockdown was about flattening the curve. It was never once stated that it was to kill the virus (which it will probably kill itself off).
You explained why today's figure was so high. You didn't explain why the figures for Tuesday and Wednesday were equally high.

Also yes lockdown was never about killing the virus but easing it has stalled the recovery, and stalled it at a point where many peoole are still dying. As someone pointed out on twitter today the death rate in this country is the equivalent of an Airbus A320 crashing and killing everyone on board EVERY 12 HOURS.

We weren't even close to being ready to ease lockdown. In fact it should have been tightened.
 
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RandySavage

Well-known member
Which is correct. 14 days ago the 7-day average was 342 and today it is 236, which is a decrease of 30.9%.

So good news, yes? Well, 10 days ago the average was 244 and today it is 236, which is a decrease of 3.3%.

So, it fell by 28.7% over the course of the first 4 days and then it's only fallen by 3.3% in the 10 days since.
Which we were told would happen by the Whitty and Valance if you remember back to the start.
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
You explained why today's figure was so high. You didn't explain why the figures for Tuesday and Wednesday were equally high.

Also yes lockdown was never about killing the virus but easing it has stalled the recovery, and stalled it at a point where many peoole are still dying. As someone pointed out on twitter today the death rate in this country is the equivalent of an Airbus A320 crashing and killing everyone on board EVERY 12 HOURS.

We weren't even close to being ready to ease lockdown. In fact it should have been tightened.
No it was ultimately about protecting the NHS.

I'd say that has been accomplished wouldn't you seen as though lots of hospital wards around the country are empty?
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
No it was ultimately about protecting the NHS.

I'd say that has been accomplished wouldn't you seen as though lots of hospital wards around the country are empty?
So you're happy for over 300 people to keep dying of it every day? When we've seen from almost every other country that if you exit lockdown correctly you can virtually kill the virus? You're happy that we, as a single country, are killing more people than the rest of the EU put together?
 

Laughing

Well-known member
Randy, I don't think you are right about the lockdown. It was to reduce the occurrences of the virus and allow the government time to get track and trace in place. Once that is up and working, you can then lockdown in localized hotspots, whilst the rest of the country continues in a more normal fashion.

Actually we have no idea why Johnson instigated a lockdown, but generally across europe the lockdown was to get numbers down to a manageable number to allow track and trace to have a reasonable chance of working.

We get it that you are against lockdown. Most don't agree with you.
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
You've also seen from other countries like Sweden, Japan, Iceland, Belarus, Taiwan, South Korea is that lockdown isn't necessarily the be all and end all.
You sir Mr Smalltown, are the one who is happy about the death rate as its you who jump on anyone else with a differing viewpoint to the crisis.

The next two pictures I show you can be found here https://evidencenotfear.com/evidence/

Areas with lockdown have higher death rates than those that don't.

Screenshot_20200606-095735.png

Also the excess death argument is disputed on that website too. Taken from EUROMO, which we know has been used on here as a measurement tool by our friend in Spain which shines a light.

Do you notice anything different between 2017 and the time of the peak of deaths Europe wide on these two pictures?



Screenshot_20200606-095244.png

So yes I will continue to question and poke and prod. If you don't like that then that's fine, I'm sure others with a lot more on the line than you will take what I find as interesting.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I'm appalled at the death rate, utterly appalled. Also appalled that the lockdown is being eased when the death rate is so hi and not going down. You might be happy for a plane full of British citizens dying every 12 hours but I'm not. I find it disgraceful.
 

bear66

Well-known member
You've also seen from other countries like Sweden, Japan, Iceland, Belarus, Taiwan, South Korea is that lockdown isn't necessarily the be all and end all.
Disregarding Sweden who are getting very worried about the consequences of voluntary versus mandatory social distancing, there was a better way of dealing with this. We chose to delay and delay and, even when the writing was on the wall, delayed again. Even South Korea had a regional lockdown when there was a hotspot in cases. Some countries not listed did lockdown (Germany, Finland, Austria, Norway, Denmark and most of Eastern Europe). They locked down early and / or tested, tested, tested with significantly lower death rates than the worst hit countries. Now we're quarantining arrivals and starting wearing masks 4 months too late. Taiwan carried out 126 actions to ensure they had one of the lowest death rates in the world with 500 flights a week by one airline alone directly from China.

Why would the world close down in 2017, when there wasn't a highly infectious new coronavirus coming our way, and for a disease for which a vast number of elderly and vulnerable people had been vaccinated? Is someone seriously asking that question?
 

dooderooni

Well-known member
You can compare and contrast responses around the world till the cows come home, but each country and each approach is unique. Ours is clearly very, very poor, but it's not about lockdown or not, it's about the timing and implementation of the efforts that we chose to undertake.
It is also very likely that we did switch from a herd immunity strategy to a lockdown one and that meant we were up against it from the off. Imagine if the Boro lined up as 226 and went 5 down inside the opening 10 minutes. Would reverting to 442 and eventually losing 4-5 be considered a good performance? No, clearly not and that is what we as a country are facing. The incompetence of this government in implementing any sort of approach is why the death count continues to be absolutely appalling and criminal. This isn't about methods or ideology, it's about leadership and determination. This bunch of chancers would struggle with any approach you would care to select from around the world, be that the New Zealand one, the Swedish one, the South Korean one or any other.
All we can hope is that we can somehow minimise the casualties going forward and get a grip on this before the weather turns and we face another wave of this virus (if indeed we actually get out of the current wave which is by no means certain).
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
I'm appalled at the death rate, utterly appalled. Also appalled that the lockdown is being eased when the death rate is so hi and not going down. You might be happy for a plane full of British citizens dying every 12 hours but I'm not. I find it disgraceful.
At what point have I written that I am happy about people dying? Please directly quote me.

People die every day from many different things

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/05/how-many-people-die-each-day-covid-19-coronavirus/

150,000 on average every day worldwide. But it seems you (and many others) are only bothered about the ones who are unlucky enough to die from covid-19 related causes. People die and it's a sad fact if life, infact it's the only thing we are promised. You are born, you live, you die. People have suddenly developed this misconception that we live forever, we do not. Constantly fearing death every day is not healthy and is liable to cause more damage to your health than covid-19.

You live in the London area yes or have I confused you with someone else? Why do you think you haven't caught covid-19 yet? Have you left your house at all since the time Johnson shut the country down?

Herd immunity was the government's goal from the start and they cocked up by changing their plan after they had already started it.

But instead of locking down the elderly and most vulnerable of society they locked everybody down. It's fairly bloody obvious that cases and deaths would go up as measures have been loosened off.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
At what point have I written that I am happy about people dying? Please directly quote me.

People die every day from many different things

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/05/how-many-people-die-each-day-covid-19-coronavirus/

150,000 on average every day worldwide. But it seems you (and many others) are only bothered about the ones who are unlucky enough to die from covid-19 related causes. People die and it's a sad fact if life, infact it's the only thing we are promised. You are born, you live, you die. People have suddenly developed this misconception that we live forever, we do not. Constantly fearing death every day is not healthy and is liable to cause more damage to your health than covid-19.

You live in the London area yes or have I confused you with someone else? Why do you think you haven't caught covid-19 yet? Have you left your house at all since the time Johnson shut the country down?

Herd immunity was the government's goal from the start and they cocked up by changing their plan after they had already started it.

But instead of locking down the elderly and most vulnerable of society they locked everybody down. It's fairly bloody obvious that cases and deaths would go up as measures have been loosened off.
I'm not sure I did say I haven't had COVID-19 but I never had the symptoms that's for sure. And yes it is obvious that deaths would go up as measures have been loosened off. So why? Why are you pushing for them to be loosened if you yourself admit it's more deadly?
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
I'm not sure I did say I haven't had COVID-19 but I never had the symptoms that's for sure. And yes it is obvious that deaths would go up as measures have been loosened off. So why? Why are you pushing for them to be loosened if you yourself admit it's more deadly?
Except you forget what Mr Whitty said at the start.
 
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