Caesium137
Well-known member
Don't forget Downing!
Steve Gibson and the overhaul that never happens
- Thread starter Pog
- Start date
Don't forget Downing!
Muttley
Well-known member
Hiring a manger with a job from a rival.
Not sure why that is important? You end up paying to get the manager money that you can only spend once
Appointing a foreign coach with new methods.
Aitor Karanka
Implementing a new approach to signings to pick up bargain players.
Victor Orta
Scouring the world of football for the best possible personnel, on the pitch and off the pitch to maximise the impact of your budget.
Expensive to have foreign scouts, again money you can only spend once
Changing pricing and ticketing policies to get as many passionate fans as possible into the stadium.
We have tried it, don't know why we don't do it now, perhaps the same reason as Sunderland, the cheapskates don't come back when asked to pay full prices and the people who have paid full whack get understandably pisssed off about it
Communicating the plan for the club and driving it forward
See "I want to smash the League" "we all know Stockton is full of Sunderland fans" "talking absolute boIIocks about 'outstanding candidates'" and resultant fall out.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
He just needs to appoint a decent manager again. Maybes when he does and we start doing well again, some of you will end your incessant whining about how the football is too boring. 
Caesium137
Well-known member
So everything is great and the club is being run as well as can be expected. You're ignoring most of what I've said and your retorts as they are fail to address any of the issues really.
But..... surely saving money in appointing a cheaper manager is a false economy if he's garbage.......he fell out with Karanka and got rid.........Orta was blamed for our transfer dealings in a hatchet job in the the Gazette after he was sacked, you can really see our signings have gone from strength to strength since.........foreign scouts are too expensive but paying £27 million for a front three of Fletcher, Gestede and Britt is reasonable use of resources and not too expensive. Weird......we have tried it and on offer days the stadium was notably fuller I assume that he'd rather have the little extra money to make the next three generations of the Gestede family millionaires or ST holders complained?............Stop saying stupid things that the fans are going to hold against you, say we have no money so we've had to take a punt on a local lad we're in for a few lean years but we'll do our best, people aren't stupid and don't like being lied to, say we're proud to represent all of Teesside, not alienate 50% of your ST holders.
It's not hard is it?
I can't fathom why anyone would give him a free ride on these last few years.
I reiterate, this isn't hating Gibson, it isn't questioning all he's done, it isn't wanting him out the door, it isn't demanding a Chinese billionaire is ushered in from stage right, it isn't an attack on his personal integrity or his obvious desire for the club to do well.
It is highlighting that at some point despite his former achievements the positives of his reign are going to be over shadowed by his terrible record for the last getting on for 14 years, but especially these last years since relegation.
He isn't learning, he's proud and stubborn, I really feel for him that after sinking in £80 million or whatever in loans of his own money we're in such a sorry state.
But ultimately it is a sorry state of his making.
hopesoboro
Well-known member
One trick pony!? First piece of silverware,numerous finals, twice qualifying for Europe,11 consecutive seasons in Prem - STFU.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
"He should do things like appoint a foreign manager"
"Aitor Karanka"
"Your retorts fail to address any of the issues"
atypical_boro
Well-known member
He just needs to appoint a decent manager again. Maybes when he does and we start doing well again, some of you will end your incessant whining about how the football is too boring.
100% this. It’s hard to believe in hindsight but even during those now glorious two years under Karanka in the Championship, a significant number of people complained about the style of football.
Caesium137
Well-known member
Whilst I know where you're coming from Hopeso and you are always going to default to defend the club and Gibson at all costs approach, but the last one of those achievements was 14 years ago.
hopesoboro
Well-known member
Another whinger with a funny name!
Caesium137
Well-known member
"He should do things like appoint a foreign manager"
"Aitor Karanka"
"Your retorts fail to address any of the issues"
The hilarity of selective quoting, I know where you are coming from, but he has done it once then panicked and got rid, and ripped everything up throwing the baby out with the bath water.
And his retorts did fail to address any of the main issues I raised, not the little list of things other clubs have done to move forward.
hopesoboro
Well-known member
It's not 14 years since we were involved in our 11 consecutive years in Prem and it was only 3/4? years since we were promoted to Prem! We've had more success than a lot of clubs.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
TBF though, why are we owed new precedents every time? I’m not sure why anyone would expect us to maintain those achievements, it was a little purple patch of about 10 years.
Should he take us down to league 1 and not bounce back we could argue we’re in new territory, but as things stand we’re just having a poor season in the second tier, we’ve had a fair few seasons like it in the past And I’ve no doubt at all we’ll have more in the future.
hopesoboro
Well-known member
You seem to have a lot of knowledge about where folk are coming from!
Caesium137
Well-known member
hopesoboro
Well-known member
Stop sniffing the radioactive stuff!Comes from being worldly wise and open minded Hopeso
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
He has made bad decisions and good ones. The problem is some people only see the bad decisions, completely ignore the good ones, and come up with easy solutions that don't make much sense.
Problem - he is rubbish at appointing people.
Solution - appoint someone to appoint people for him.
My own view is that he has made two catastrophic decisions. 1 Sacking Karanka. 2. Appointing Monk. Both of these decisions are understandable.
Our transfer dealings were very good from the start of Mowbrays reign to part way through Karankas. Something has gone amiss. I don't know what. Probably various members of staff have come and gone.
He has then wasted loads of money by backing his managers financially with idiotic deals like Fletcher, Saville and Assombalonga. Most of the time backing a manager is seen as the right thing to do.
The last three years have seen the worst mismanagement of the club since I've been following. But I understand the reasons why this has happened and I don't think there are any easy solutions.
Problem - he is rubbish at appointing people.
Solution - appoint someone to appoint people for him.
My own view is that he has made two catastrophic decisions. 1 Sacking Karanka. 2. Appointing Monk. Both of these decisions are understandable.
Our transfer dealings were very good from the start of Mowbrays reign to part way through Karankas. Something has gone amiss. I don't know what. Probably various members of staff have come and gone.
He has then wasted loads of money by backing his managers financially with idiotic deals like Fletcher, Saville and Assombalonga. Most of the time backing a manager is seen as the right thing to do.
The last three years have seen the worst mismanagement of the club since I've been following. But I understand the reasons why this has happened and I don't think there are any easy solutions.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
See personally I thought Karanka going was right provided he’d brought in an experienced trouble shooter, but he was trying to get Agnew to do a Craig Shakespeare and it didn’t work.
I thought Monk was a “fair” appointment at the time, there really weren’t many endearing names to pick from at the time.
Woodgate was his biggest mistake imho, but I’m not going to demand that he relinquishes all decision making responsibilities over it. It was just one of those things that went pear shaped. If I, and virtually everyone on this board were chairman, we’d all make bad appointments sometimes.
You’ve hit the nail on the head tho. The campaign now seems to be that he should appoint someone to appoint managers. As if people wouldn’t blame him if that didn’t work out. They’d blame him double!
Muttley
Well-known member
I didn't say that. I addressed all the points you raised (as far as I can tell - I went back and re-read your post/rant) for what Gibson should do/try and showed where he had already done/tried these things, why I thought they weren't worth pursuing or were relatively trivial.
Mistakes have been made but I can see the logic in every decision that was made. What was tried. I understood the appointments of Monk, Strachan and Woodgate at the time they were made. I didn't necessarily agree with them but I could see the logic. I don't agree with the appointment of Warnock, I don't like his style of football and I don't like the false bonhomie that he radiates. But again I understand why. I didn't agree with the way we went about our PL season, we were too quick to throw away the players that got us promoted we should in my opinion have backed Karanka long term like Burnley did with Dyche and guarantee him a chance to take us back up if we were relegated. I didn't like the appointment of Monk but again he was a logical appointment.
I don't like the idea of a Director of Football it's just another wage to pay, someone to blame if things go wrong. Think of the way Neil Bausor is vilified on here and most of the shouters have no clue what the bloke actually does on a day-to-day basis or what his responsibilities are. Think a DoF will make us into world beaters? Will guarantee us a shot at the PL? Stabilise us in this league?
Dream on.
No guarantees, no quick fixes.
But erimus, I do believe.
indeedido
Well-known member
Gibson has been making awful decisions since 2006.
I don't care who makes the decisions, I just want the big ones to be right more often than not.
We are in the worst league position the club has been in since 87, with more debt than in our history. It has been an utter disaster since Jan 2017.
Dress it up however you want but it's true.
I don't care who makes the decisions, I just want the big ones to be right more often than not.
We are in the worst league position the club has been in since 87, with more debt than in our history. It has been an utter disaster since Jan 2017.
Dress it up however you want but it's true.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
That’s true but in some ways the fact it’s taken 33 years to get back there maybe should be something to be thankful for? I mean, we’re not in unprecedented waters at present by any means.