ticker_tape
Well-known member
I think all in all we have had a good steady club and have achieved things, hopefully we will have some success again.
Steve Gibson and the overhaul that never happens
- Thread starter Pog
- Start date
starplayer
Well-known member
I think whilst the DoF model is attractive, it is more likely to fail than succeed. It is another appointment in the chain that you have to get right and we dont have a great track record with that. I suppose if you are going to do it though now would be the right time. A threadbare squad where the additions needed can be the foundation of the project going forward. Try to get rid of the recent signings so theres no overspill of the medicrity that has been allowed to be accepted. I dont think there can be any egos in the DoF or head coach positions though, otherwise when it goes wrong we are into the blame game and splits in the camp.
Caesium137
Well-known member
As Newy said, basket case clubs with chairmen who made terrible decisions (probably harsh on Ipswich)? If it us next season after spending £70 odd million in the second tier in the four years since relegation, I'd argue that is equally as poor financial management as any of those listed.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
But my point is its too ingrained in the club now, everyone will point the finger at him regardless of what goes wrong and who we are told is the decision maker. When you bake a cake, you can't break it down and put the eggs to one side. This cake has been baking for 27 years and it brought about plenty of success for a good period. I think this emerging/popular desire to have Gibson bankroll the club but leave it all to someone else to run is always just going to be a pipedream. For a start, no one would believe Gibson if he came out and blamed a disaster like relegation on someone else (DoF, chairman or whatever title he gives to someone). People would just say Gibson is using them as a fall guy.
ticker_tape
Well-known member
Hopefully not, maybe someone will come in and save us from Gibson.
Hammies_Tash
Active member
It's very simple a football club, like any business is like a fish, it rots from the head. Gibson gets 80% of decisons incorrect, lurches from one direction to the opposite season after season and Warnock wonders why we end up with a squad of ok midfield players, terrible defenders and expensive strikers that can't hit a barn door with a shovel. Gibson needs to treat it like a business make business decisions, like he does with his business's as he is clearly good at it. Get good people in the correct positions and trust them do their job, don't keep constantly undermining them and changing the goalposts when you hit a bump in the road.
Muttley
Well-known member
I love made up statistics.
There's some rubbish spouted on this subject every time it is brought up, any team that is currently enjoying a period in the sun is quoted "why are we not doing as well as them?" Well for many seasons we were. Every single club in the divisions above us and below is trying to do better, trying to be the next Bournemouth or the next Leicester and trying not to be the next Portsmouth or Bury. We don't have a "right" to be in the PL (I'm not even sure it's fun being there any more). If it was as simple as people make out then every single team would win the PL... except plainly that isn't possible, every team is trying to find the next best manager the next super keeper or deadly striker, all of them. They are all doing the simple things and sometimes there is a team that can use a different model to achieve success. Brentford maybe? This is as competitive as it gets, there are no simple solutions it’s hard work and luck...
And having an owner who isn't going to sell us to a gambling conglomerate...
atypical_boro
Well-known member
I love made up statistics.
There's some rubbish spouted on this subject every time it is brought up, any team that is currently enjoying a period in the sun is quoted "why are we not doing as well as them?" Well for many seasons we were. Every single club in the divisions above us and below is trying to do better, trying to be the next Bournemouth or the next Leicester and trying not to be the next Portsmouth or Bury. We don't have a "right" to be in the PL (I'm not even sure it's fun being there any more). If it was as simple as people make out then every single team would win the PL... except plainly that isn't possible, every team is trying to find the next best manager the next super keeper or deadly striker, all of them. They are all doing the simple things and sometimes there is a team that can use a different model to achieve success. Brentford maybe? This is as competitive as it gets, there are no simple solutions it’s hard work and luck...
And having an owner who isn't going to sell us to a gambling conglomerate...
These are exactly my thoughts. Gibson could appoint someone who, on paper, looks like a fantastic 'chairman' to run the club, or make all the decisions.
If that guy doesn't deliver, would people say 'Oh but fair play to Gibson though'? No, they'd say "Gibson has yet again made a disastrous decision and doesn't know what he's doing". I'm sure if there was a Jorge Mendes or Peter Kenyon type out there willing to work for an affordable rate who Gibson could give the keys to the car to and be *very* confident of it being a success, he would, but otherwise I imagine he just sees having another highly paid geezer on the payroll as an expense we don't need, an enormous gamble that would really just be to appease the fans who've grown impatient with the club's inability to replicate his first 15 years as chairman.
The bottom line is his bed is made here, one day he'll sell up and be out of our hair completely, and take his money with him. Then many of his critics can finally breathe a sigh of relief at him no longer making the decisions.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
Why was it any 'luckier' than any other promotion?
Pog
Well-known member
I love made up statistics.
There's some rubbish spouted on this subject every time it is brought up, any team that is currently enjoying a period in the sun is quoted "why are we not doing as well as them?" Well for many seasons we were. Every single club in the divisions above us and below is trying to do better, trying to be the next Bournemouth or the next Leicester and trying not to be the next Portsmouth or Bury. We don't have a "right" to be in the PL (I'm not even sure it's fun being there any more). If it was as simple as people make out then every single team would win the PL... except plainly that isn't possible, every team is trying to find the next best manager the next super keeper or deadly striker, all of them. They are all doing the simple things and sometimes there is a team that can use a different model to achieve success. Brentford maybe? This is as competitive as it gets, there are no simple solutions it’s hard work and luck...
And having an owner who isn't going to sell us to a gambling conglomerate...
There’s no luck involved in knowing Jonathan Woodgate didn’t have the intelligence or ability to be a football manager. Just as there’s no luck involved in knowing Steve Agnew was a terrible appointment, or Gareth Southgate the that matter.
Just about everyone knew Rudy Gestede was a terrible footballer, but we still stumped up £6m for him.
He doesn’t learn from any of his mistakes. He makes the same ones over and over and over again.
The only defence anyone can muster for Gibson and his incompetence/stubbornness is “1986” or “oh well at least he’s not going to sell us to some foreign investor”.
We’ve watched dull football and lacked leadership from him for years. I’d welcome anyone who could run the club in a competent fashion at the moment.
Pog
Well-known member
Excellent points Festa.
The new ticket office manager is a great example. Came in and crunched the numbers, presented fresh new ideas to the club to get more people into the stadium.
All rejected by Gibson as he refused to change policy, one which has resulted in rows and blocks of empty seats across the stadium as a result of some of the highest walk up prices in the division.
He left as he realised there was nothing he could achieve here, Gibson was too resistant to change.
That’s how he runs the club, and that’s how we’ve ended up where we are today.
El Guapo
Well-known member
Re overhaul / restructuring
Who / what type of personality j would you go for as DoF? chief exec? How would you structure the club?
Gibson as chairman.
An Arsene Wenger (won’t happen) or similar younger version would be the ideal sort of person to set up the football side and appoint manager, coaches, scouts, dictate club philosophy.
A Peter Kenyon or similar is required as Chief Exec to oversee the finances, do the commercial and contract deals and appoints those below him.
Obviously both streams have to work hand in hand / together.
Would that work?
Who / what type of personality j would you go for as DoF? chief exec? How would you structure the club?
Gibson as chairman.
An Arsene Wenger (won’t happen) or similar younger version would be the ideal sort of person to set up the football side and appoint manager, coaches, scouts, dictate club philosophy.
A Peter Kenyon or similar is required as Chief Exec to oversee the finances, do the commercial and contract deals and appoints those below him.
Obviously both streams have to work hand in hand / together.
Would that work?
ticker_tape
Well-known member
I think once youve seen whats happened to my own club and been through it at that time, you tend to have a different outlook to others.
Its my 52nd season next season and 51 as a season ticket holder, I wouldnt swap Gibson for any other tbh. I seen what Amer did to us and the others prior to him did nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Totally indebted to the people and companies that stepped in when we were in the mire and Gibson made my Boro daydreams and fantasies come true.
I will always be loyal to the Boro and always be loyal to Gibson, been a great chairman and he needs support more than ever.
Its my 52nd season next season and 51 as a season ticket holder, I wouldnt swap Gibson for any other tbh. I seen what Amer did to us and the others prior to him did nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Totally indebted to the people and companies that stepped in when we were in the mire and Gibson made my Boro daydreams and fantasies come true.
I will always be loyal to the Boro and always be loyal to Gibson, been a great chairman and he needs support more than ever.
El Guapo
Well-known member
He does, but he has to open himself up to support
ticker_tape
Well-known member
I agree talking never does any harm, and it builds bridges.
Muttley
Well-known member
When Bournemouth appointed Eddie Howe I expect that many armchair experts threw their knowledgable arms in the air and declared him a failure. When Burnley went down under Sean Dyche and he kept his job same. When we were relegated under Karanka/Agnew not many hadn't wanted to sack Karanka when he went. Southgate kept us up for two seasons with a squad that was having to be reshaped, seems to have done OK since?
As he has found out "opening himself up" is something of a two edged sword. Quotes taken out of context (e.g. I WANT to smash the League interpretted as a promise to do so). I suspect he has had enough of flack from ingrates who half the time don't even trouble to buy a ticket.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
A DoF would just be another stick to beat him with for the impatient types and the fans who think they know best, of which there are many.
The reality is his time here has just gone stale and he isn't unanimously liked anymore, it happens. I'd much rather this though than what we could easily have as an alternative.
Caesium137
Well-known member
There is no hard work or luck in filling the professional roles at a multi million pound business with people limited to a Teesside postcode.
There is no hard work or luck in talking absolute boIIocks about 'outstanding candidates', 'golden threads' and 'well funded' when referencing one of the worst managerial appointments ever. And then after sacking him for almost relegating us with 37 goals scored in almost a season, say how great he is and that there'll be another job for him at the club.
I think many of those who are now openly questioning Gibson for his record would be more tolerant if he hadn't spouted such nonsense about Woodgate, or told us Pulis had left us in a strong position, or the often hinted at restructuring behind the scenes led to any changes. It hasn't, since 2008 we've looked organised and moving in the right direction for about 24-30 months under Karanka.
We've been in what looks like a managed decline for about 12 years, apart from a brief period with Kenyon involvement.
You are right in that clubs have periods of ups and downs and their own time in the sun, but nearly all of those who have resurrected themselves will have done so by instigating change....
Hiring a manger with a job from a rival.
Appointing a foreign coach with new methods.
Implementing a new approach to signings to pick up bargain players.
Scouring the world of football for the best possible personnel, on the pitch and off the pitch to maximise the impact of your budget.
Changing pricing and ticketing policies to get as many passionate fans as possible into the stadium.
Communicating the plan for the club and driving it forward.
He doesn't do that, he appoints his Teessiders, he's silent other than renewal time, he only appoints unemployed managers or rookies.
I really like Gibbo, he's always going to be a legendary chairman because of his history with us, but we're a lot closer to where his involvement with us stated than we are to a mid table PL club that got to a European final.
We find ourselves on the brink of League 1, with no manager confirmed for next season, more than likely requiring around ten signings, with a squad utterly devoid of leaders, quality, experience, passion and guts. All this after spending over £70 million on permanent signings since relegation.
That is quite frankly, an unbelievable failure of sound management.
This isn't some sort of unlucky ups and downs, this has been appalling leadership.
I await the usual who would you get to run the club, if you don't like it you put a million a month in etc etc.
I'm just utterly disillusioned and disheartened with how we've managed to turn the golden goose of promotion into a riches to rags horror story in such a short period.
If the rumours of the league starting on the 29th September are anywhere near true, (if we stay up) we've got an unbelievable amount of work to do.
I've no idea where we go from here, but most worryingly, I don't think Gibbo does either.
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