Six nations starts today!!

SmallTown said:
Pragmatic is the word when picking Farrell over Smiith isn't it? He's a much more limit3d, much less exciting player. I guess he is consistent though. I think it's the quins bias in me but I'd much rather see and exciting Smith then s boring Farrell
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First of all, I hope you enjoyed your day at Twickenham today.

I see Smith as the Glenn Hoddle of rugby and we may look back and think he should have received more caps. He's an exciting player and sees things others don't but Farrell seems to offer more defensively. Both are arguably amongst the best fly halves at the moment.

Farrell seems to get the nod at the moment due to being proven and seems to play better with a strong 12, would the same be said about Smith? We will only see that if Brothwick is strong enough to drop Farrell for Smith.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
First of all, I hope you enjoyed your day at Twickenham today.

I see Smith as the Glenn Hoddle of rugby and we may look back and think he should have received more caps. He's an exciting player and sees things others don't but Farrell seems to offer more defensively. Both are arguably amongst the best fly halves at the moment.

Farrell seems to get the nod at the moment due to being proven and seems to play better with a strong 12, would the same be said about Smith? We will only see that if Brothwick is strong enough to drop Farrell for Smith.
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Smiths main problem is his 12 I agree. They need to be reasonably willing to play the ball, to react when Smith goes off the cuff. But to me that means doing Farrell. Who can't. It's not as if creative tens are an expensive luxury at international level. Russell isn't exactly by the book and Scotland are doing ok. I just thing Smith needs a chance to show he can play without his 12 stifflong him. Today was the ideal chance. Don't get me wrong. Farrell is a very good player. But he's the old workman England. I'd like to see Borthwick be a bit bolder
 
Oh and cheers @Norman_Conquest yeah it was a cracking day out at Twickers. I think a few others from this board went too. It was one of the few modern games I've been too without loads of people up and done going to the bar as well. That tends to spoil a trip there.

One interesting thing to note was they played a video explaining sweet chariot before the match trying to get us not to sing it. Some of us still did but if they phase that out the atmosphere will be dead. We have no other songs
 
Jedi boro said:
Is there a more pointless game in international sport than England Italy in the 6 nations. As it’s nearly always a blow out.

Great game to bounce back from but normally it’s a dire watch.
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Think this is an unfair comment, primarily against the Italians. Italian rugby is on the up and arguably you could say in a more identifiable position than England or Wales at the moment. They play a very attractive, aggressive ball in hand style and it really does look good in full flow (like last Sunday). However, their ill-discipline and lack of power up front let them down yesterday. I think as the tournaments go by and they play against more tier-one opposition in the Summer/Autumn internationals, you'll find them compete more. Lets be honest, they should have beaten France last weekend.
 
What were your thoughts on yesterday then @SmallTown - I enjoyed parts, specifically Jack Willis, just on the whole. He really is an incredible prospect and must start at 7 in any given opportunity. I thought Dombrandt put to bed some of the poor handling from last week (apart from his first carry! :ROFLMAO: ). A very strong game and made some good metres.

Ollie Lawrence pretty much cemented the No.12 position, very good line running and carrying 80 metres, exactly what we needed against Scotland. Slightly disappointed to see us so weak in possession by kicking the ball away/grubbering in their half. I think we tried to grubber one 7 metres out at one point with 2 great options out wide. Overall, I think Borthwick has to be as pragmatic as possible and we definitely had a bit more identity.

Mitchell and Arundell were impressive from the bench. Not convinced Mako has much left to offer the international team. I was perplexed by Slade's involvement. One carry, one pass, numerous kicks to touch. I didn't know if defensively he was just left to cover any marauding Capuozzo runs through the middle.
 
SmallTown said:
Oh and cheers @Norman_Conquest yeah it was a cracking day out at Twickers. I think a few others from this board went too. It was one of the few modern games I've been too without loads of people up and done going to the bar as well. That tends to spoil a trip there.

One interesting thing to note was they played a video explaining sweet chariot before the match trying to get us not to sing it. Some of us still did but if they phase that out the atmosphere will be dead. We have no other songs
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Have to say last seasons Welsh game was utterly ruined for me by those traipsing past me to the bar every 5 minutes. Literally every 5 minutes.
 
SmallTown said:
Smiths main problem is his 12 I agree. They need to be reasonably willing to play the ball, to react when Smith goes off the cuff. But to me that means doing Farrell. Who can't. It's not as if creative tens are an expensive luxury at international level. Russell isn't exactly by the book and Scotland are doing ok. I just thing Smith needs a chance to show he can play without his 12 stifflong him. Today was the ideal chance. Don't get me wrong. Farrell is a very good player. But he's the old workman England. I'd like to see Borthwick be a bit bolder
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This is exactly what I meant with my post regarding Smith and Farrell.

Glad you enjoyed your day, the rugby is always a great experience with everyone out to enjoy themselves. I just wish I knew more about it than I do and do sit wondering why decisions have been given - The ref's mic does help and I always get a radio for this reason.

FatFrank said:
Think this is an unfair comment, primarily against the Italians. Italian rugby is on the up and arguably you could say in a more identifiable position than England or Wales at the moment. They play a very attractive, aggressive ball in hand style and it really does look good in full flow (like last Sunday). However, their ill-discipline and lack of power up front let them down yesterday. I think as the tournaments go by and they play against more tier-one opposition in the Summer/Autumn internationals, you'll find them compete more. Lets be honest, they should have beaten France last weekend.
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I have got to agree with your reply to Jedi, the only way they will improve is by playing these games and you can see how far the Italian games travelled since last year to this.
 
FatFrank said:
What were your thoughts on yesterday then @SmallTown - I enjoyed parts, specifically Jack Willis, just on the whole. He really is an incredible prospect and must start at 7 in any given opportunity. I thought Dombrandt put to bed some of the poor handling from last week (apart from his first carry! :ROFLMAO: ). A very strong game and made some good metres.

Ollie Lawrence pretty much cemented the No.12 position, very good line running and carrying 80 metres, exactly what we needed against Scotland. Slightly disappointed to see us so weak in possession by kicking the ball away/grubbering in their half. I think we tried to grubber one 7 metres out at one point with 2 great options out wide. Overall, I think Borthwick has to be as pragmatic as possible and we definitely had a bit more identity.

Mitchell and Arundell were impressive from the bench. Not convinced Mako has much left to offer the international team. I was perplexed by Slade's involvement. One carry, one pass, numerous kicks to touch. I didn't know if defensively he was just left to cover any marauding Capuozzo runs through the middle.
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I'm glad to see Willis back fit and playing internationally. He didn't show it as much yestrfsay but he's the king of the turnover. That'll put us in good stead when it gets down and dirty. I rate the guy. Dombrandt: Taking off my quins bias for one moment. I just thinks Simmonds is a better player. a more complete player. At club level, it's fun watching an 8 who thinks he's a 13 but I think Simmonds does this and offers more in the "traditional" 8 role too. Lawrence was immense wasn't he? And yeah I totally agree with you with the kicking options. we over use them and in pointless positions. I don't know why. Especially against Italy. The point of grubber kicks and that is to force a chance and risk losing possession when all else fails. All else wasn't failing. we need more patience with the ball. To be more comfortable to run into contact and recycle out wide as well as in the middle.

That, and the lack of invention in attack were the only real downsides, but our attack did feel a step back from the Calcutta cup, where we were bit more expansive.

Defensively: We still seem to have massive problems in open play (so you're probably right about why Slade was picked) which scars me against France. Sometimes even Ireland looked like they were trying to tackle mist when Penaud and Fickou got going. However I thought our first phase defence was excellent. We really disrupted them in the ruck early on and our line speed was very quick. Very in your face defending. We are still very much a work in progress but if we can combine yesterday defence and set piece with last saturdays attack we could be a decent side. Not in time for the world cup but still exciting to watch in a couple of years.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
Have to say last seasons Welsh game was utterly ruined for me by those traipsing past me to the bar every 5 minutes. Literally every 5 minutes.
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Yeah, it has become a real big problem at Twickenham. I have no problem with rugby crowds drinking but maybe close the bars during the matches. It's crazy to me people pay the massive prices to watch England play then spend all your time in the bar

Norman_Conquest said:
This is exactly what I meant with my post regarding Smith and Farrell.

Glad you enjoyed your day, the rugby is always a great experience with everyone out to enjoy themselves. I just wish I knew more about it than I do and do sit wondering why decisions have been given - The ref's mic does help and I always get a radio for this reason.
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Yeah it's a quandary. Like I said I'm biased by I'm on the side of the flair player. I can see how at international level the more pragmatic, more constant Farrell would get the nod but I'm not a fan.
Having had a little moan above, I do like the fact it is a full day out. Got there really early, had a bit to eat, watched a band, had a few drinks before going to our seats. I would do it more often if it wasn't so pricey. I'm the same about knowledge of the game. I've watched it for loads, had a season ticket for 12 years at the Stoop but I haven't played since school so miss some of the nuance. I was so tempted to get a ref link yesterday too. The refs are really good at explaining their decisions.
I actually was going to start playing vets next season to understand the game more. I signed up for touch this year to get used to the game. Sadly a bulging disk in my neck has had my physio telling me I can't play :-(
 
Took my lad yesterday, neither of us are rugby experts by any stretch but thoroughly enjoyed it and will be going again. Maybe not stopping in Hounslow though. Deary me. Beyond grim !
 
Listening to Borthwick’s comments it’s bizarre England waited until just before the World Cup to change the set-up.

It’s been clear for a couple of years that the team was not functioning. There’s three massive games coming up now. England could easily lose all three. Ireland in Dublin looks like a nightmare right now. England need a repeat to their performance in 2018 in Dublin.
 
Nero said:
Listening to Borthwick’s comments it’s bizarre England waited until just before the World Cup to change the set-up.

It’s been clear for a couple of years that the team was not functioning. There’s three massive games coming up now. England could easily lose all three. Ireland in Dublin looks like a nightmare right now. England need a repeat to their performance in 2018 in Dublin.
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Agreed. The EJ era should have ended a long time ago. Borthwick has no time to build a squad for the world cup, only 5 competitive games left and as you say we are likely to lose most of them except Fiji this summer. Little bit scared about Wales reaction to the Scotland loss now, they'll be so up for it in a fortnight and we are just so far behind France and Ireland
 
I've been impressed with both Malins and Ben Earl. Earl showed Farrell how and when to use a grubber kick yesterday.
 
Nero said:
Listening to Borthwick’s comments it’s bizarre England waited until just before the World Cup to change the set-up.

It’s been clear for a couple of years that the team was not functioning. There’s three massive games coming up now. England could easily lose all three. Ireland in Dublin looks like a nightmare right now. England need a repeat to their performance in 2018 in Dublin.
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Ireland are a nightmare for anyone at the moment and seem streets ahead of us. We really need to lift our game to compete with them but the lads in charge now are no mugs and will have them set up for it.

I also thought Willis played well on his return.
 
SmallTown said:
I'm the same about knowledge of the game. I've watched it for loads, had a season ticket for 12 years at the Stoop but I haven't played since school so miss some of the nuance. I was so tempted to get a ref link yesterday too. The refs are really good at explaining their decisions.
I actually was going to start playing vets next season to understand the game more. I signed up for touch this year to get used to the game. Sadly a bulging disk in my neck has had my physio telling me I can't play :-(
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Sounds like exactly the same situation as myself - played at school and didn't watch a game for 10 years. Then picked the 6N back up in 2011/12 and slowly became a proper nause! Subscriptions to Rugby Pass, Premier Sports (to watch the Pro 14, as it was) etc. I've been back to touch and enjoyed it. Going to get some weight off me over Summer and get my body back into some form of ready physical condition then look to sign up for Stockton 2nds/3rds in September, then take it from there!

Further to the line speed comment, I thought that first half it was electrifying. Itoje and Willis were lightening. Thought it slowed down in the 2nd half, but also thought our whole game did. Certainly not concerned for our trip to Wales in 2 weeks time. They were beyond poor against Scotland and offering no attacking threat. Without Louis Rees-Zammit, they rely on North, Cuthbert, Williams etc and they were in their pomp 5/6 years ago.

Excited for Ireland and France games - just putting this out there, I do believe we will beat France at HQ. Dublin will be the real acid test to compare ourselves against the best in the World.
 
The 6 Nations resume today with Ireland in Italy currently leading 0 - 5 and England in the principality after the Welsh strike was averted at the 11th hour. Scotland's visit to France will be interesting but can only see a French win.

I fancy England to get a result today against Wales.
 
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