BoroMart
Well-known member
Populism is never a good angle
Scotland v England
- Thread starter Jedi boro
- Start date
BoroMart
Well-known member
He doesn't like facts mate, his posts on this subject are supposition, wild conjecture and blatant prejudices. I'll take facts above that every day of the week.
I'm just bored of the go round and round, your argument is those managers had the best squad and I (and the majority of people, populist indeed) argue opposite.
You have to belittle today's squad so that you can say how great a manager GS is.
It's fine I'm happy knowing that the majority of people disagree with you.
You have to belittle today's squad so that you can say how great a manager GS is.
It's fine I'm happy knowing that the majority of people disagree with you.
BoroMart
Well-known member
It's pretty obvious that Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Sol Campbell, Terry would walk straight into this current side, same with Scholes, possibly Beckham in his prime too. Gerrard and lampard would both get ahead of any midfielder today bar Bellingham. Their careers are over we know they were all world class.
Nobody is belittling it, we have loads of talent in that front 4, particularly behind kane. But Callum Wilson wouldn't have got into squads ahead of Owen and Fowler and Sheringham. Stones is the only one of hte current CBs who would get into those squads, and not as a starter. Walker is better than Phil Neville mind. It's a balanced and rationale opinion. We have strengths (attacking midfield, RB and one world class CF), we have weaknesses true world quality CDMs, Fullbacks, options at CF.
So am I, see my SuperHans quote earlier.
The Card Cheat
Well-known member
You mean the majority of "experts" on social media sites like Facebook and Reddit.
The day thats any kind of guage for what's right will be a sad one.
Google what the vast majority of people who actually know what they're talking about ex players and current managers think of him, they may criticise certain decisions he takes (rightly sometimes) but almost to a man or woman they'll say he's done an excellent job.
More importantly see what the current England squad think of him, they absolutely love him and respect what he's done as England manager.
Why do many on the internet think he's been a poor manager?
Take a look online at the great many people still calling for his head and you’ll realise most are predominantly club supporters often supporting Top Six clubs, presumably not hugely tuned in to the national team. Many get their England content from pseudo-news organisations and popular football fans on social media. If you get all your news from controversial takes on Twitter, you can end up believing anything. Like, for example, that Gareth Southgate has been a terrible England manager.
BoroMart
Well-known member
And this is why this country is in such a state, loudness and confidence trumps expertise on social media, loud dumb people have an equal voice and influence others. The result is Tories, brexit, culture war, conspiracy theories, and anti-southgaters
Surely, if he were far too defensive, England wouldn't have a better goals per game average under him than under any manager since Walter Winterbottom. And yet they do.
England Managers’ Records & Statistics 1872-2023
allied_assault
Well-known member
He is doing a brilliant job and it is only a matter of time before England wins something in his tenure.
BoroMart
Well-known member
better than 1 in every 5 goals England have scored since our first manager in 1946 have been scored by a Southgate team. 37 more goals and we will have 1/4 of all our goals since we started having managers, will be under southgate sides. Considering we play Malta at home soon and 4 games before the year is out, I think we might be at that total next summer.
TeaCider
Well-known member
atypical_boro
Well-known member
In fairness we might. It all really hinges on how well Germany can up their game at home, and how much of a hangover France have from the World Cup. Spain might have a shout, but we're probably one of 4 nations that might actually win it.
I suppose we shouldn't discount current champions Italy, like. OK, 5.
Nero
Well-known member
England need to start winning the big games against the best teams. It’s definitely a mentality issue and comes from a total lack of success for 60 years.
At the World Cup I predicted England would play well but lose against France.
At the last Euros Italy were England’s worst possible opponent in the final. The Italians expect to win the big games and their mentality is often brilliant.
At the World Cup I predicted England would play well but lose against France.
At the last Euros Italy were England’s worst possible opponent in the final. The Italians expect to win the big games and their mentality is often brilliant.
WilliamMunny
Well-known member
Except when they play North Macedonia
Again with the binary, straw man arguments. There aren't only two possible outcomes or assessments when looking at a manager's record. He doesn't have to be either fantastic, or rubbish.
However he is by almost any metric, the most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey and by other metrics, he ranks as the first or second most successful.
Again, that doesn't necessarily mean he's fantastic, just that he's done objectively better than almost every other England manager apart from perhaps one.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
If you took a poll I reckon the majority of people would say 2006 squad is better than our squad now
Who out of todays team would walk into the 2006 team
The keeper and the back 4 is all 2006
Gerrard before rice
Lampard before Henderson’s
Rooney before kane
We have better options out wide than we ever have
Nero
Well-known member
It’s an interesting comparison but difficult to make. The current England team are playing much better more consistent football than the team from 2006. This England team are scoring more goals and look a modern team. The 2006 team played in straight lines and were genuinely awful in Germany 06. They were even worse in South Africa 4 years later.
For any direct comparison. I would actually pick Kyle Walker, Reece James and TAA over Gary Neville. Kane over Rooney every single time. Pickford is probably just as good as David James and perhaps better.
In a 4-2-3-1 would Lampard and Gerrard be selected as a midfield two? They wouldn’t have the discipline to play it. One would need to be the No 10.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Pickford is interesting, because he would never make my England squad today. I am
Of the opinion he’s garbage
xxlshirts_fit_all
Well-known member
An international manager/ first team coach will never be deemed to be fantastic until their team wins a major trophy.. it’s just the way..
I personally rate Southgate’s tenure as one of the best in my 50 odd year life time but it doesn’t excite me the way El tels did…
Bobby robsons itallia 90 team played dire football but still excited the fans…
I think it all comes down to how exciting individual players are in the squad..
We don’t have a gazza, butcher, robson, beckham etc we do have a Bellingham and foden who are world class as is Kane... but their personalities are not sparking excitement… even grealish who does have that playboy persona divides fans because of say, his diving in domestic games or his (perceived) look at me attitude..
Then there’s Gareth him self.. he’s portrayed as someone who could bore the knobs of a bed post.. I personally have thought he was managerial material since he became spokesman for the team during euro 96… and was gutted when it didn’t work out for him at the boro… obviously being nice doesn’t win respect from a majority of England fans..
I personally rate Southgate’s tenure as one of the best in my 50 odd year life time but it doesn’t excite me the way El tels did…
Bobby robsons itallia 90 team played dire football but still excited the fans…
I think it all comes down to how exciting individual players are in the squad..
We don’t have a gazza, butcher, robson, beckham etc we do have a Bellingham and foden who are world class as is Kane... but their personalities are not sparking excitement… even grealish who does have that playboy persona divides fans because of say, his diving in domestic games or his (perceived) look at me attitude..
Then there’s Gareth him self.. he’s portrayed as someone who could bore the knobs of a bed post.. I personally have thought he was managerial material since he became spokesman for the team during euro 96… and was gutted when it didn’t work out for him at the boro… obviously being nice doesn’t win respect from a majority of England fans..