And here they are (open in chrome for translation). https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/lista-har-ar-restriktionerna-som-galler-i-sverige
Meanwhile, in Sweden...
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And here they are (open in chrome for translation). https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/lista-har-ar-restriktionerna-som-galler-i-sverige
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If you're going to engage, at least have the courtesy to get your numbers right. Why are you so desperate to believe they have had a catastrophe?
Alvez_48
Well-known member
Just eurgh, please stay home for the rest of our sanity.
The numbers reported are the same as those reported on Financial Times, Worldometers (which uses a source you supplied previous (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa), and Swedish based news) and informationisbeautiful and just about anywhere else.
I'm not desperate to prove they had a catastrophe, I'm more intent on proving that you've got your head in the sand. I wanted what they have done to work more than anything else, but it's just not. It was initially painted as a no lockdown, everyone is back to normal, they've not been effected etc, but it's not being painted that way now.
Take your blinkers off.
The only reason you're comparing Swedens figures to Spain, Italy and the UK is because they're the only nations that initially appear to have done worse and because they're using higher numbers. You don't factor in initial infection or compare nations of similar type or size.
Why aren't you comparing Sweden with Norway, Finland or Denmark?
Sweden has a higher daily death average than Belgium (who massively over report) and Germany (who have 80m people).
Randy
Well-known member
Except they are in a better position than most, same as Japan for example. Sweden aren't staring mass unemployment in the face, Sweden aren't in danger of losing a whole generation of children from lack of schooling, Swedes aren't relying on the government to hold their hands and tuck them in at night because their government actually trusts the people who voted them in.
You seem to not be able to accept that this countries that have chosen not to lock down, majority of them actually have a lower death rate than the likes of the UK, Spain, Italy etc.
Borolad, remember when I posted this about 3 weeks ago, and you came back with a patronising answer?
"Of course I do, don't be patronising again, it doesn't suit when you're trying to promote something that is defective.
UK (486, a $hit job, which everyone agrees on, other than Boris) - losing 400 per day out of 70,000,000, so 6 per million, per day (ish)
France (410) will go down that list losing 200 per day out of 70,000,000, about 3 per million per day
Sweden (329) will climb that deaths per day if they're losing 100 per day from 10,000,000, about 10 per million per day
So, currently Sweden are catching up on France, by 7 per day, per million, and the UK by 4 per day per million. If things stay as they are today, then give it a couple of weeks and they will be ahead of France, and ahead of the UK in 6 weeks on the "deaths per million race". That's with more notice than either us or France had. "
So, now:
UK (614)
Sweden (470)
France (449)
So what I said about taking over France was correct, and they've also increased in separation from just about any other EU nation, which is terrible. They've not separated from the UK because the Swedes have done a good job, it's more because we're doing a $hit job.
"Of course I do, don't be patronising again, it doesn't suit when you're trying to promote something that is defective.
UK (486, a $hit job, which everyone agrees on, other than Boris) - losing 400 per day out of 70,000,000, so 6 per million, per day (ish)
France (410) will go down that list losing 200 per day out of 70,000,000, about 3 per million per day
Sweden (329) will climb that deaths per day if they're losing 100 per day from 10,000,000, about 10 per million per day
So, currently Sweden are catching up on France, by 7 per day, per million, and the UK by 4 per day per million. If things stay as they are today, then give it a couple of weeks and they will be ahead of France, and ahead of the UK in 6 weeks on the "deaths per million race". That's with more notice than either us or France had. "
So, now:
UK (614)
Sweden (470)
France (449)
So what I said about taking over France was correct, and they've also increased in separation from just about any other EU nation, which is terrible. They've not separated from the UK because the Swedes have done a good job, it's more because we're doing a $hit job.
First of all, you can't know the current rolling seven day average because the figures aren't available yet. That also applies to the people compiling these stupid comparison graphs, which are pointless anyway because the data is gathered in different ways by different countries.
If you don't understand after 25 pages of this thread why comparing Sweden with their neighbours at this point is also pointless, then there really isn't much point in engaging further.
I have a totally open mind on Sweden. I don't know whether what they have done is right or wrong at the moment and they themselves have stated from the beginning that it's unlikely that meaningful comparisons can be drawn for at least 12 months. Let's put it this way though, I'm not worried about travelling there this summer.
You have to ask yourself, what happens with Norway, Denmark and Finland now? They have done well to keep the disease out, but now they are more vulnerable to further waves of infection. If a working vaccine or successful treatments are found, they have done really well. If not, they have to live with an ongoing threat. Sweden will likely have the bi-product of "herd immunity". At a cost, of course.
I regard the fact that Sweden had no excess deaths last week as good news. Don't you?
If you don't understand after 25 pages of this thread why comparing Sweden with their neighbours at this point is also pointless, then there really isn't much point in engaging further.
I have a totally open mind on Sweden. I don't know whether what they have done is right or wrong at the moment and they themselves have stated from the beginning that it's unlikely that meaningful comparisons can be drawn for at least 12 months. Let's put it this way though, I'm not worried about travelling there this summer.
You have to ask yourself, what happens with Norway, Denmark and Finland now? They have done well to keep the disease out, but now they are more vulnerable to further waves of infection. If a working vaccine or successful treatments are found, they have done really well. If not, they have to live with an ongoing threat. Sweden will likely have the bi-product of "herd immunity". At a cost, of course.
I regard the fact that Sweden had no excess deaths last week as good news. Don't you?
They're not like Japan, who stopped having people die about 50 days ago, and Japan never went above 0.5 deaths per million per day.
Sweden has the highest deaths per million, anywhere in the world and for a nation so far along their curve this is poor.
If Sweden carry on at this rate they're going have to deal with this problem for months, how is that going to effect their economic outlook, who is going to trade/ travel to/ from a nation that isn't performing well with the virus? They might end up very slightly better off percentage wise, but the extra deaths are just not worth it. It's like the herd immunity plan.
Why are you comparing to three nations with a much higher initial infection and much larger population. Why aren't you comparing to Norway, Finland and Denmark (use the sum of all three if you like).
That's great about their people and the trusting government, it's a good way to be for most things and their people are a lot nicer and more sensible than in the UK, that's for sure. Had we implemented their strategy it would have been much, much worse for us, that's for sure. That's all well and good, but the virus doesn't give a toss about that, what it gives a toss about is social distancing, limiting contact and limiting groups. Sometimes people need to be told/ forced, unless they're all virology experts and have hazmat suits.
Sweden does not have the highest deaths per million anywhere in the world. You crack on with your fantasies. I have finished with responding to you.
Why aren't the figures there? Surely they know how many people are dying from a day or so before, and know how many were in hospital/ infected, like how most others do? If not, why not?
Where are all the statisticians getting all their info from, do you know more than they do because you've lived in Sweden?
You can use the historical 7 day average figures, or use what is available, just like how you're doing.
How do they know they had no excess deaths if they don't have the figures?
Norway has recorded just about zero excess deaths at all, like Finland and Denmark about 7%, Sweden was on about 30% last time I looked and still not near "normal".
The "we don't know weather this is right or wrong" isn't really a great argument when people are dying, and pretty much every expert that has dealt with this situation before is saying lock down, stop contact, test, track, trace, isolate etc.
Norway, Finland and Denmark will be going back to work just like how Sweden are, just like how the UK is. With established tests, testing capacity, virus knowledge, tracking and tracing every single country in Europe is going to be 100x better equipped to handle further infections.
I would rather be a nation on zero deaths and limited cases per day, and tracking new infections from there, rather than being on 30,40 50 deaths and it being more difficult to track new infections.
Randy
Well-known member
And if you'd had bothered to read the entire thread you would see
Yeah definitely something out of the ordinary happening in Sweden.
All cause mortality figures from 1990 to present day.
Yeah definitely something out of the ordinary happening in Sweden.
All cause mortality figures from 1990 to present day.
Today 23 deaths were reported. Tomorrow there will probably be a large spike in the deaths reported. This is not because there is a sudden surge in deaths, but because, periodically, the public health authority look back over the preious month's all cause deaths. If someone dies within 30 days of testing positive for Sars Cov 2, they are included as a Covid death, regardless of whether or not this is what they died from (ie. cancer, heart disease etc). Very few countries are being anything like this stringent.
I will bet my house that November to March will be normalising those figures to make it appear better than it is. It was the same when people in the UK were saying 2018 had more excess deaths than 2020, which lasted about 2 weeks and then 2018 was hit out of the ball park.
Whats the April v April figures, or may v may?
Actually the below explains it quite well. Up until March Sweden were on a very low year for deaths, compared to previous. So this dragged your average down on your graph. As you can see from below, the only months that matter are April and May, and they look to be up about 40%.
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That doesn’t sound unreasonable, having COVID 19 is probably a massive contributing factor in decreasing lifespan of those they actually manage to test. The thing is, Sweden’s tests are low per million, like 33rd in Europe. So the amount of people proven infected and dying of something that COVID has not massively impacted on will likely be low. If you’re not testing enough you’re not finding enough cases to wrongly report, to artificially inflate figures.
The excess deaths will prove it well enough, I’ll revisit it this in a few month to give the Swedes time to get their figures straight (or not straight).
The delay in reporting is strange though, not sure why they’re struggling so much?
It's about 2 hours per day less than we have in the north of England, but in mid-winter the quality of that daylight is poor. The houses on the north side of our lake, facing south, lose the sun behind hills from about the 20th december to the 12th January. There's a big hill immediately to the south of my place, so the sun disappears for a fair bit longer. We tend not to be there
In July it never gets dark and the sun can be hot at 3 a.m. I prefer August, when you do have a couple of hours of darkness ... but the most incredible long sunsets that last for hours.
Well, the adjustment wasn't as large as I expected. The daily deaths graph still looks like this. And intensive care cases are down around 10% over the week.
Meanwhile in Norway
The good news is that those in intesnsive care are down to 218 now (from 300 just over a week ago). Contrary to what was posted upthread, you can now see that they haven't seen over 50 deaths in a day since 23rd May (so a 7 day average of 50 on the 9th of june is just miles out... ie. plain wrong) and it looks like it's currently between 20 and 30.
There may be a small spike relating to an outbreak in the mining community of Gallivare in the far North. Miners, underground, shared air and not socially distanced ... it has spread into the community, so there is a small hotspot. Elsewhere the general trend is still promising.
The PHA are still stressing that social distance and travel guidelines still need to be followed. It's not over yet.
There may be a small spike relating to an outbreak in the mining community of Gallivare in the far North. Miners, underground, shared air and not socially distanced ... it has spread into the community, so there is a small hotspot. Elsewhere the general trend is still promising.
The PHA are still stressing that social distance and travel guidelines still need to be followed. It's not over yet.
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