Meanwhile, in Sweden...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Alvez_48 said:
The people are speaking with their feet and choosing to choose living.
In a matter of weeks all of his deflection will be for nought because the train is leaving the station I just pray we can pick up enough steam to save the economy and the livelihoods of millions of adults. 👍🏻
Click to expand...

We're a rich enough nation to look after us all still, it's our choice how we divide it up.
 
borolad259 said:
I am between Skelleftea and Arvidsjaur in the North. We're right on the border between Vasterbotten and Norrbotten.

Skelleftea is a great place to live, if you can hack the winters. It's also on the up. Europe's largest battery factory is being built there. There's also a highly decveloped creative and gaming industry there.
Click to expand...
Wow, that is north. :D
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
We're a rich enough nation to look after us all still, it's our choice how we divide it up.
Click to expand...

Wow ok sure thing there...

Meanwhile in reality ville:-

'Johnson says there will be “many, many job losses”. That is “inevitable”, he says.

He says the government will be “as activist and interventionist” in helping people as it has been so far, he says.

He says no other country in the world has done as much.'

Lockdowners are simply wrong 'full scale lockdown switch off' has been the wrong approach from the start and we are witnessing the policy crumble infront of our eyes.
Jobs will be destroyed, whatever 'safety' gained destroyed more division than ever and now we have already got a preview riot occuring in London.
 
Billy

I've seen the interview and that rather mis-interprets him. He has all along said that the number of fatalities is not acceptable and that they weren't quick enough in the care homes. Actually, what he said today is that, with hindsight, knowing what they know about the disease now, they might have done things a little differently. But they didn't. He says that it would be a bit weird to stand there and say "no, we couldn't have improved upon what we have done". I'd rather someone like that in charge than a Prime Minister whos says that he's proud of his government's handling of the covid19 pandemic, as deaths passed 50,000.

This is his response to the way it has been reported.
"
To TT Anders Tegnell says now:
- The interview got a little angled, or they chose to interpret my quotes like that. But you should be self-critical. That's good, but I'm no more self-critical now than I've been before. Of course, we would not have done exactly the same way if we knew everything we know today. That would have been weird. But that's always the case when you look back in the rearview mirror.

And for those who have followed the reporting, it has been clear. Tegnell has regretted the high death rates in interview after interview. That they've been too high, that it's not acceptable. It's no news, and it wasn't when Tegnell told the Echo this morning either.

However, what would have been new would have been if it had led to a concrete measure - now. It would have even been new if there was a proposal for a concrete measure - then.
But someone like that didn't come. Probably because it is completely impossible to know which measures would have had better effect.

Sweden's politicians and authorities have great responsibility in handling covid-19. But being wise has no meaning now, the more important then to make decisions that have effect now onwards.

Now there were articles all over the world. Around a news about something that wasn't news."
 
bear66 said:
That does sound ridiculously low! Good you can live there all year as well. Oil heating?
Click to expand...

We have oil and electric radiators. We have to leave the thermostats over winter set to about 5 degrees to prevent the pipes freezing when we aren't there. Typically, our friends up there have wood fired heating (wood is in plentiful supply in the forests). They keep their homes at about 23 degrees through the winter and wander around indoors in T shirt and shorts :)
 
borolad259 said:
Billy

I've seen the interview and that rather mis-interprets him. He has all along said that the number of fatalities is not acceptable and that they weren't quick enough in the care homes. Actually, what he said today is that, with hindsight, knowing what they know about the disease now, they might have done things a little differently. But they didn't. He says that it would be a bit weird to stand there and say "no, we couldn't have improved upon what we have done". I'd rather someone like that in charge than a Prime Minister whos says that he's proud of his government's handling of the covid19 pandemic, as deaths passed 50,000.

This is his response to the way it has been reported.
"
To TT Anders Tegnell says now:
- The interview got a little angled, or they chose to interpret my quotes like that. But you should be self-critical. That's good, but I'm no more self-critical now than I've been before. Of course, we would not have done exactly the same way if we knew everything we know today. That would have been weird. But that's always the case when you look back in the rearview mirror.

And for those who have followed the reporting, it has been clear. Tegnell has regretted the high death rates in interview after interview. That they've been too high, that it's not acceptable. It's no news, and it wasn't when Tegnell told the Echo this morning either.

However, what would have been new would have been if it had led to a concrete measure - now. It would have even been new if there was a proposal for a concrete measure - then.
But someone like that didn't come. Probably because it is completely impossible to know which measures would have had better effect.

Sweden's politicians and authorities have great responsibility in handling covid-19. But being wise has no meaning now, the more important then to make decisions that have effect now onwards.

Now there were articles all over the world. Around a news about something that wasn't news."
Click to expand...

Exactly I've seen many headlines 'sweden admit they have got it wrong' which isn't the context at all.

Including in bears favourite paper.. the guardian.
 
borolad259 said:
Billy

I've seen the interview and that rather mis-interprets him. He has all along said that the number of fatalities is not acceptable and that they weren't quick enough in the care homes. Actually, what he said today is that, with hindsight, knowing what they know about the disease now, they might have done things a little differently. But they didn't. He says that it would be a bit weird to stand there and say "no, we couldn't have improved upon what we have done". I'd rather someone like that in charge than a Prime Minister whos says that he's proud of his government's handling of the covid19 pandemic, as deaths passed 50,000.

This is his response to the way it has been reported.
"
To TT Anders Tegnell says now:
- The interview got a little angled, or they chose to interpret my quotes like that. But you should be self-critical. That's good, but I'm no more self-critical now than I've been before. Of course, we would not have done exactly the same way if we knew everything we know today. That would have been weird. But that's always the case when you look back in the rearview mirror.

And for those who have followed the reporting, it has been clear. Tegnell has regretted the high death rates in interview after interview. That they've been too high, that it's not acceptable. It's no news, and it wasn't when Tegnell told the Echo this morning either.

However, what would have been new would have been if it had led to a concrete measure - now. It would have even been new if there was a proposal for a concrete measure - then.
But someone like that didn't come. Probably because it is completely impossible to know which measures would have had better effect.

Sweden's politicians and authorities have great responsibility in handling covid-19. But being wise has no meaning now, the more important then to make decisions that have effect now onwards.

Now there were articles all over the world. Around a news about something that wasn't news."
Click to expand...

Thanks Borolad. Incidentally, I wasn't posting the links to be deliberately provocative. I was just genuinely surprised that there'd been no discussion about the news stories on this thread.

It certainly is an interesting qualification of his attributed comments. I would also agree with you that people should be able to admit that things could have been improved without then being lambasted, and the contrast with our government's bombastic demeanour is very stark.

Regardless of context, I did find his comments that maybe they should have done "something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done" quite interesting. I know he won't have been thinking about the UK in those comments, but I actually think one could argue that we did a looser, later lockdown than several other countries and I don't think that the UK would be held up as a shining example of success!
 
Billy Horner said:
Thanks Borolad. Incidentally, I wasn't posting the links to be deliberately provocative. I was just genuinely surprised that there'd been no discussion about the news stories on this thread.

It certainly is an interesting qualification of his attributed comments. I would also agree with you that people should be able to admit that things could have been improved without then being lambasted, and the contrast with our government's bombastic demeanour is very stark.

Regardless of context, I did find his comments that maybe they should have done "something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done" quite interesting. I know he won't have been thinking about the UK in those comments, but I actually think one could argue that we did a looser, later lockdown than several other countries and I don't think that the UK would be held up as a shining example of success!
Click to expand...

Like all the other state epidemiologists and public health experts, they were working in the dark. Because he didn't say what he'd have changed (he doesn't know by and large apart from the "homes" thing) he left it as a vague "somewhere between what we did and what others did".

I suspect that , in time, they'll not look to have done too badly unless a miraculous cure/vaccine arrives. Unless the virus has really run its course (which seems unlikely) then those countries that have kept it out have a serious problem facing them.
 
Cheers Borolad, appreciate the links. We've started looking further South at the moment (easy access to Copenhagen airport) but wouldn't be adverse to casting the net wider. If I end up there with work (fingers crossed!) we'll probably do the reverse and find somewhere in the city first before looking at a property for the Summer.
 
Not looking too good for Sweden over the past few days. Everyone else tailing off, Sweden starting to ramp up?
 
otto62 said:
Not looking too good for Sweden over the past few days. Everyone else tailing off, Sweden starting to ramp up?
Click to expand...
Doesn't look great for them, their daily deaths and deaths per million are just not recovering anything like how everywhere else has, and their new cases seem to be on the way up which probably isn't going to be good for the deaths in the next few weeks.
1591440038456.png
1591440070937.png
 
Wev1 said:
Doesn't look great for them, their daily deaths and deaths per million are just not recovering anything like how everywhere else has, and their new cases seem to be on the way up which probably isn't going to be good for the deaths in the next few weeks.
View attachment 3737
View attachment 3738
Click to expand...
There's been a steady decline in daily deaths. The number in intensive care is below 300 now with daily admissions just in double figures (down from 40 to 50 at peak). They will have a long-ish tail because the virus is now working in sparsely populated areas. There's an increase in the reported new cases simply because they are testing much more widely now. Their overall deaths per million is way lower than in the UK. They are also more fastidious about reporting Covid deaths: so someone in end of life cancer care who tests positive for covid 19 is recorded in the data as a Covid death, even if it was actually the cancer that killed the patient. This is in stark contrast with some countries who have not counted care home or community deaths, just those in hospital.
The death toll is too high, for sure. They screwed up in the care homes just like we did here. But at least they didn't just abandon care home residents to their fate as happened in Italy and Spain.
 
borolad259 said:
There's been a steady decline in daily deaths. The number in intensive care is below 300 now with daily admissions just in double figures (down from 40 to 50 at peak). They will have a long-ish tail because the virus is now working in sparsely populated areas. There's an increase in the reported new cases simply because they are testing much more widely now. Their overall deaths per million is way lower than in the UK. They are also more fastidious about reporting Covid deaths: so someone in end of life cancer care who tests positive for covid 19 is recorded in the data as a Covid death, even if it was actually the cancer that killed the patient. This is in stark contrast with some countries who have not counted care home or community deaths, just those in hospital.
The death toll is too high, for sure. They screwed up in the care homes just like we did here. But at least they didn't just abandon care home residents to their fate as happened in Italy and Spain.
Click to expand...
There was an increase in total new cases of over 10% in three days. Some of these were apparently catching up on previous tests not counted but not all. There was an apparent spike of younger people getting positive tests in the West of the country. Do you know why these younger people would have been tested? Were they random or people with more serious health problems?
 
Wev1 said:
Doesn't look great for them, their daily deaths and deaths per million are just not recovering anything like how everywhere else has, and their new cases seem to be on the way up which probably isn't going to be good for the deaths in the next few weeks.
Click to expand...
I think it's worth noting that not only does their current rate of deaths per capita (in terms of the 7-day rolling average) remain stubbornly high but their per capita death rate since the very beginning is still the fifth highest in the world (excluding micro-states). Everybody acknowledges that Belgium, the UK, Spain and Italy have been particularly hard hit by the coronavirus but for Sweden to be the major country with the next highest rate of deaths per capita in the entire world after these 4, is quite something.

IMG_20200607_090643.png
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top