Joshua Usyk
- Thread starter Alzi
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Heam44
Well-known member
What was your pre fight prediction?
HiredGun123
Well-known member
Fury has more to his game than just boxing
He knows how to “big man” fighters, which AJ doesn’t. Look how he could manhandle Chisora, who in turn almost did that to Usyk.
Fury also knows how to use his long jab and can throw it from different levels, which AJ doesn’t really have. Usyk could be so far out of range for the footwork not to be a huge factor
Fury has so many sides to his game. I think he beats Usyk well. Even Usyk said it’s the toughest fight for him.
Go and look on the first page of this thread and I gave a huge detailed description of why Usyk will beat AJ. I didn’t even think it was in doubt.
I’m just as sure Fury would beat Usyk, even
More so. I know the sport inside out, I’d been doing it since 4 years old but my life took another direction so I never went into it as a career. However I like to think I can predict fights well from a very technical aspect.
I was probably the only person years ago on the old board that said fury will beat Klitschko and give a good description of how, and that also played out exactly how I said. Before that fight, everybody thought fury was a joke that was getting knocked out but I knew how good he is.
JustTheGent
Well-known member
That's an incorrect analysis for me. I don't really believe in lines of form in boxing and Usyk and Chisora are completely different fighters. In fact, they are the complete opposite of each other. Whatever Fury did to Chisora is irrelevant to Usyk. In any case, Usyk beat Chisora very easily. Chisora does try to bully his opponents but he had more success against the likes of Joseph Parker and Dillian Whyte trying that. Usyk's size was certainly no disadvantage. Just as it wasn't against Joshua.
I don't believe Fury is as good as you think he is. If he was, he'd be having regular decent fights. Instead, he picks his opponents very carefully and selects them according to his style. Do you think he's picking these big men he fights because they are going to be tough for him? He's fighting them because he holds all the advantages. That's why he was always targeting Wilder.
The problem for Fury against Usyk, is that he won't hold the advantages. Yes, he is bigger and has the longer reach, but Usyk will dictate how the fight is fought through his footwork and movement. He's levels above Fury in this regard. He'll get Fury at midrange and pretty much do what he wants with him. Yes, Fury will no doubt try and change things up and will perhaps try to bully Usyk. But if he starts trying to walk him down, he'll get peppered with shots that hurt and he has no chance of cutting the ring off consistently, if at all. Usyk is also a lot stronger than his actual weight. Look at him in the clinches with Chisora and Joshua, he more than holds his own.
It's very important to look at evidence when analysing fighters. Fury is a very good heavyweight but fighters who aren't even as half as good as Usyk have given him trouble. Fury knows this which is why he is very careful who he steps in the ring with. This is in contrast to Usyk who will fight anyone. He'll fight anyone because he knows how good he is. That's why he cleaned out the Cruiserweight division and now holds most of the belts at Heavyweight.
joeydiaz
Well-known member
AJ needs to ditch Eddie Hearn and get back to basics, his ring walk was an embarrassment, if you are going to do that, match it with the performance.
He wants to get back to some s***hole gym, get the hunger back and ditch all the corporate nonsense if he had any chance of resurrecting his career.
He wants to get back to some s***hole gym, get the hunger back and ditch all the corporate nonsense if he had any chance of resurrecting his career.
Priv
Well-known member
biggest issue with people not rating Fury is that they haven’t seen enough of him in big fights, outside of wilder and Klitschko he hasnt fought anyone else top ten, a lot of his opponent's similarly to wilders are an absolute joke. If he’s fought more then people would realise how good he is. His couple of years off and drugs ban didn’t help but think it’s more down to motivation and abit of laziness than anything but it is frustrating for us fans.
Alzi
Well-known member
Joshua I think hasn’t had the required hunger or aggression for quite a few years. I’m not sure a rematch vs Usyk Is wise because his career will be over after another loss.
Usyk and Fury are different breeds really and you can tell love the battle.
Frank Bruno comparisons for AJ are in hindsight justified. Excellent fighter but quite exposed against the best. Sky hype train hasn’t helped. Did anyone also notice the bell went at least 5 seconds early in the 12th?
Usyk and Fury are different breeds really and you can tell love the battle.
Frank Bruno comparisons for AJ are in hindsight justified. Excellent fighter but quite exposed against the best. Sky hype train hasn’t helped. Did anyone also notice the bell went at least 5 seconds early in the 12th?
Uwefuchs
Well-known member
Good point, Fury has had a few lacklustre performances against some poorer opponents but he's able to raise his game on the big nights.
The people who don't like him will refer to his fights against people like Otto Wallin and think that's his level, then they find excuses for the likes of Klitschko and Wilder to downplay his better performances.
I think we saw how good Fury was going to become in the Derek Chisora fights, he won comfortably enough in the first fight but in the second fight he had improved so much and did a demolition job on Chisora. He showed in that second fight that he can box to a plan for 12 rounds and use his height and movement.
I know Chisora isn't an all time great but I don't think he's that far behind fighters like Parker, Whyte and Povetkin, to be honest the younger version of Chisora who Fury beat is probably about on par with them and Fury took him apart.
I take the points a few people have made about Usyk being more skilled than Fury and it would be a really tough fight, but Fury isn't Joshua either. He won't stand in the pocket and move forwards and backwards in straight lines all night.
I know its been mentioned that Usyk held his own in the clinches with Chisora and Joshua but Fury is a different level as well in that regard. He'll probably weight about another 30 points compared to Joshua and I just think his bigger reach, height and weight will be too much for Usyk.
Watch last night and Joshua didn't use his height at all, he was virtually squatting down to Usyk's height for most of the fight. I would expect Fury to box taller and a lot longer than Joshua did.
Chappy112
Well-known member
Don’t think Joshua losing is anything to do with lack of hunger, he’s just limited. Should have left McCracken a long time ago to try and add a few more tools to his game. He’s similar to Froch in many ways in terms of how limited he is but his size and power is enough to overcome most problems in the heavyweight division.
The skill gap between the 2 fighters ended up being far too large and AJ has always struggled with movement, Takam showed that but Takam is nowhere near as skilled as Usyk, this is the first time Joshua has faced someone with that kind of skill and movement since Savon and he had no idea how to deal with it.
It was like Klitschko vs Fury in many ways, Usyk took away Joshua’s jab and it made him hesitant and gun shy, once fighters like that are missing and they’re being landed on with crisp counters, doubt starts creeping in and they become reluctant to throw. I think for Joshua to beat Usyk in the rematch he would have to take the Chisora approach, make it into a dog fight, use your size and try to bully Usyk but I just don’t think he’s anywhere near durable enough and he’d get stopped.
To be honest I’d probably avoid the rematch if I were his trainer but for matchroom and the brand there’s just too much at stake and they’ll push for it no matter what. With Ruiz you could see a route to winning the rematch but with Usyk I’m not sure I can after what happened last night, like I said I think the only way he can win is via a dog fight but that’ll just get him knocked out early.
The skill gap between the 2 fighters ended up being far too large and AJ has always struggled with movement, Takam showed that but Takam is nowhere near as skilled as Usyk, this is the first time Joshua has faced someone with that kind of skill and movement since Savon and he had no idea how to deal with it.
It was like Klitschko vs Fury in many ways, Usyk took away Joshua’s jab and it made him hesitant and gun shy, once fighters like that are missing and they’re being landed on with crisp counters, doubt starts creeping in and they become reluctant to throw. I think for Joshua to beat Usyk in the rematch he would have to take the Chisora approach, make it into a dog fight, use your size and try to bully Usyk but I just don’t think he’s anywhere near durable enough and he’d get stopped.
To be honest I’d probably avoid the rematch if I were his trainer but for matchroom and the brand there’s just too much at stake and they’ll push for it no matter what. With Ruiz you could see a route to winning the rematch but with Usyk I’m not sure I can after what happened last night, like I said I think the only way he can win is via a dog fight but that’ll just get him knocked out early.
Uwefuchs
Well-known member
When you look at the heavyweight division, Wilder and AJ are unbelievable athletes. You'd imagine they could play a number of sports at a high level but both picked up boxing a bit later in life and don't have the amateur background of Usyk or the years inside a boxing ring like Usyk and Fury both have.
Sometimes a puncher can beat a boxer but last night we saw AJ who is a good athlete, a good puncher and a decent boxer lose to an elite boxer. There's no shame in that.
The fact that AJ has achieved so much in his career despite only really starting boxing late in life is an incredible achievement but he's not superman either.
Sometimes a puncher can beat a boxer but last night we saw AJ who is a good athlete, a good puncher and a decent boxer lose to an elite boxer. There's no shame in that.
The fact that AJ has achieved so much in his career despite only really starting boxing late in life is an incredible achievement but he's not superman either.
Nero
Well-known member
Superb pre-fight analysis indeed. Are you a boxer by the way?
HiredGun123
Well-known member
I started boxing at 4 or 5 years old, my uncle and grandad were boxing trainers. I boxed every day until age 16, but I got injured and was out for about a year and then I fell out of love with it a bit, being 16-17 and interested in other things. But I’ve been around it all my life and it’s my passion when it comes to sport.
Nero
Well-known member
You can certainly tell. That's the best analysis I've seen about a fight on here. It pretty much went exactly as you said it would. Can you predict when Boro start playing well?
Ex pfc wintergreen
Well-known member
Heam44
Well-known member
Your detailed description was so accurate you stated Joshua would be stopped.
And you were that certain Uysk would win you ended your post on the caveat “Of course, we haven’t seen Usyk take a shot from a good puncher at heavyweight. It only takes one shot by any heavyweight in the right spot”.
HiredGun123
Well-known member
Go to the second page, I gave a more detailed description and was more sure of the Usyk win there.
I did feel AJ could be stopped, and he was almost out in the 12th.
I still feel Usyk could’ve stopped him around the 9th if he applied the pressure. Even in post fight interviews he said his team stopped him going for the knockout then. You could see a real decline in Joshua from the ninth round. Same round I felt he could be stopped.
And yeah, there was always going to be a question if Usyk would take the shot well if AJ landed flush
But go and read my breakdown on the second page, that was a more technical one
HiredGun123
Well-known member
Probably a case of who lands first. But I think AJ has always been a bit tailor made for Wilder. A bit static target with no head movement. Say what you want about Wilder but he has a brilliant ability to find the right shot, especially against fighters who are pretty much a static target.
Also, Wilder isn’t actually easy to hit flush. Firstly because fighters are so cautious to over commit, and he’s deceptively good at staying long.
So I’d give Wilder the edge, just because I think would find AJ a bit easier than AJ would find him.
AJ hasn’t got the ability to apply use pressure with his feet like Fury did. Fury used this perfectly balanced footwork that keeps constant pressure, followed up by a jab, but allowed him to step back out of range if Wilder tried to commit himself. AJ hasn’t got that kind of balance or intelligence with his feet. Fury was masterful with it in the second fight, the way he could shift weight and balance with his feet between attack and defence, it’s seriously high level.
I mean I don’t know how Wilder will be now after the loss. But the best Wilder v AJ, I’d fancy Wilder to land first but would probably be a stinker until whoever landed first. Both would be so hesitant to commit.
Heam44
Well-known member
The one where you said:
“No outcome would shock me at all, I’ve just got this feeling that Usyk beats him and by stoppage somewhere around the 9th.”