How can anyone take the Labour Party seriously any more.

Soutra said:
Yes, that's a good point. But do I think Labour will be capable of holding the Tories' feet to the fire when it counts?

No, I don't.

HM Opposition hasn't turned up on Brexit, Covid, the Union or anything else really. Instead of turning up the heat on Boris, Labour are busy arguing about anti semitism, the CoE and paying compensation to disgruntled members.

Three years for Keir to get the train on the tracks. I'm not very hopeful.
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Labour are snookered at this present moment.

Brexit - they've always been caught between opposing an act which goes against the instincts of the leadership, but was voted for by the very people they need to win over. I think the calculation is that Brexit is actually a long fuse. The last four years were arguing that that fuse shouldn't be lit without some kind of plan. Now there's no plan, let's see what happens.

Covid - they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Its a national crisis that needs cross party support to solve. Any opposition or pointing out failures is loudly hailed as political opportunism, while offers of help and support are ignored.

The Union - Labour are all at sea in Scotland. what fight can they even put up? What fight should they even put up since the current situation has been created by the Conservatives?

With regards to turning up the heat, how can you do that when there is no scandal too big, no f*** up too damaging, no views held or policies floated that even bring a semblance of shame and a resignation from government ministers. Boris mantra of 'never apologise' is keeping the Vote Leave cabinet cocky and comfortable at the moment.

Starmer needs to get street smart on that. Stop taking fine words to a knife fight. That's certainly not working.

Labour have to sort out the mess within the party otherwise there's always going to be small ticking bombs all over the place. These are the Tony Mowbray years for Labour. It is what it is. They've got 18 months to get their house in order, set out some deliverable policies -even if that's building on the better ideas of the Corbyn years. They need to hold some kind of party gathering (due to Covid there's been no conferences or in person events, so its very hard to build any sense of movement) and start ramping up for 2024.
 
boroboy6872 said:
main-qimg-bbcf808a87d471dfe584112ea7ee3821.webp



And the Tories have done what to stop the use exactly?

Those figures above show that it has got worse beyond belief under Tory governance

Even the Trussell Trust said this was down to Tory policy on 2017

https://www.trusselltrust.org/2017/11/07/foodbank-demand-soars-across-uk/
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Can't wait to see the response to this
 
Alvez_48 said:
I agree remind me who briefed against Corbyns' brexit plans? Oh the current leader of the opposition. Cool .
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What were his plans? In an election based on Brexit, he gave zero leadership. In my over 40 years of voting Labour it was the most inept campaign ever.

As it happens it's best that Starmer keeps quiet until Covid vaccination is over, what does he have to win?

People over play The Mail, I doubt anyone on Berwick Hills every buys it or looks online.
 
As a labour leaning centrist and believer (for now) in Sir Kier, can I just suggest the only reason that will prevent a Labour government is if the Corbynites keep undermining their own leadership and party. A GE win in 4 yrs really should not be too difficult to achieve given the mayhem caused by the tories allowing the virus free rein to kill many of their supposed traditional voters (the elderly), their ongoing woeful mishandling of the pandemic and the economic disaster that is yet to rear its head with higher taxes and unemployment. The young that become eligible to vote who have had their education hampered and in some cases ruined will not forget in a hurry.

I genuinely can’t see how the Tories can try to buy votes next time, despite it being 3-4 yrs away. I think the next election might be one the Tories are actually happy to lose, sit back watch Labour try to deal with the mess they’ve left behind, what with low to empty coffers left and then hope to sweep back in around 2029 when people are unhappy that Labour have not got a magic money tree to resolve their life woes.

Anyone on here (or anywhere else for that matter) who is unhappy with a Tory government, needs to get behind the current Labour leader, forget Corbyn, McDonnell and their cronies and do all they can to support Sir Keir, his approach and policies that are yet to develop. Labour do not need policies just now. Watching the Tories self harm from the opposite benches, jabbing politely but critically away on the sidelines is all he needs to do right now, pointing out obvious failings and throwing the odd populist idea occasionally forward will do. He needs to stay gaff free and give little ammunition to Johnson but develop policy and strategy in the background ready for when the time comes.

Sir Keir will need to get a bit more personally public in the red wall areas, let them see him take an interest in their areas once the vaccines are done and Boris has declared his inevitable, but fake victory over Covid-19. Corbyn and his cronies need to shut up sniping from the sidelines though or we will have another Tory win.
 
Did anyone see the maniac that is Richard Burgon on BBC politics the other day?
He constantly refused to answer a question on whether “ people”or women should be used in regards to pregnancy as in his opinion it distracts and divides.
It was nearly as cringeworthy as Micheal Howard and Paxman circus if anyone is old enough to remember. The minute Starmer stood next to the Union flag the very same Burgon was on his high horse saying it would alienate the BAME community. Why? He’s the leader of the British Labour Party and he aspires to be the leader of Britain.
The average man in the street looks at these people as complete idiots and are as far removed from them as they are from Rees Mogg and BJ.
 
Having spent the past 5 or so years bad mouthing Corbyn @coluka wants us to stfu now that a nobody is in charge of labour. Pot meet kettle.
Frankly the best thing to happen would be a new party that represents the working class and stops s***ing themselves every time an interviewer asks them identity politics b***ks.
 
Alvez_48 said:
Having spent the past 5 or so years bad mouthing Corbyn @coluka wants us to stfu now that a nobody is in charge of labour. Pot meet kettle.
Frankly the best thing to happen would be a new party that represents the working class and stops sh1tting themselves every time an interviewer asks them identity politics b***ks.
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And who are this “working class” you want a new party to represent? Those that were happy to vote in Boris Jihnson and his elitist cabal?
 
Same_as_before said:
What were his plans? In an election based on Brexit, he gave zero leadership. In my over 40 years of voting Labour it was the most inept campaign ever.

As it happens it's best that Starmer keeps quiet until Covid vaccination is over, what does he have to win?

People over play The Mail, I doubt anyone on Berwick Hills every buys it or looks online.
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They don't buy the mail but that's not how it works, the papers print the stories , they trend on social media and the tv news picks up the story.
Its not about who buys the paper its about how far the story travels.
 
coluka said:
As a labour leaning centrist and believer (for now) in Sir Kier, can I just suggest the only reason that will prevent a Labour government is if the Corbynites keep undermining their own leadership and party. A GE win in 4 yrs really should not be too difficult to achieve given the mayhem caused by the tories allowing the virus free rein to kill many of their supposed traditional voters (the elderly), their ongoing woeful mishandling of the pandemic and the economic disaster that is yet to rear its head with higher taxes and unemployment. The young that become eligible to vote who have had their education hampered and in some cases ruined will not forget in a hurry.

I genuinely can’t see how the Tories can try to buy votes next time, despite it being 3-4 yrs away. I think the next election might be one the Tories are actually happy to lose, sit back watch Labour try to deal with the mess they’ve left behind, what with low to empty coffers left and then hope to sweep back in around 2029 when people are unhappy that Labour have not got a magic money tree to resolve their life woes.

Anyone on here (or anywhere else for that matter) who is unhappy with a Tory government, needs to get behind the current Labour leader, forget Corbyn, McDonnell and their cronies and do all they can to support Sir Keir, his approach and policies that are yet to develop. Labour do not need policies just now. Watching the Tories self harm from the opposite benches, jabbing politely but critically away on the sidelines is all he needs to do right now, pointing out obvious failings and throwing the odd populist idea occasionally forward will do. He needs to stay gaff free and give little ammunition to Johnson but develop policy and strategy in the background ready for when the time comes.

Sir Keir will need to get a bit more personally public in the red wall areas, let them see him take an interest in their areas once the vaccines are done and Boris has declared his inevitable, but fake victory over Covid-19. Corbyn and his cronies need to shut up sniping from the sidelines though or we will have another Tory win.
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I disagree that Starmer can gain ground by hiding away. He's getting a reputation as Captain Hindsight and the opposition needs to strike while the iron is hot. The longer he sits on his hands the less tenable his position is in my view.
 
Abel Tasman said:
This war on woke that the right wing media have constructed deliberately in an effort to distract the nation from the disaster that is the UK Government is so transparent to me. And yet it seems to have worked.
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You maybe right but what on earth is Khan up to in London with his statue commission or is that fantasy as well
 
It may be volatile for Labour but it’s even more volatile for the Tories.

Just because they won a good majority for the first time in 30 odd years on the back of Johnson calling the single big issue correctly will not matter at all in four years time.

With taxes soaring to pay for Rishi’s spending spree, unemployment rising and possible negative Brexit outcomes being the main issues next time around, the Tories are going to need a mountain of bxllxxit to get anywhere close next time around.

I think we are entering very difficult times.
 
Same_as_before said:
As it happens it's best that Starmer keeps quiet until Covid vaccination is over, what does he have to win?
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1. The vaccination program has worked well.

Nobody could doubt this. However it's clear that it is the government's only way out if the pandemic. So -

2. Test and trace has cost billions and hasn't worked, and isn't working.
3. People self isolating have not been monitored to make sure they are.
4. The quarantine system is still not operational, and some cabinet ministers say it is unworkable (according to the Sunday Times).
5. Contracts for supply of everything from PPE supply to test and trace have been handed to Tory cronies with no performance checking.
6. Infection rates, hospitalizations and fatalities are the worst in the Western world.

But in spite of this, Keir and Labour are sitting on their hands in the glare of the headlights. He needs to call the government out by explaining what he would do differently. The electorate doesn't like subtlety and nuance. Just choose a position and stick to it. Johnson won't be able to defend his performance on anything except vaccinations, so nobody would say it was political point scoring.

But instead it's let's wear suits, stand in front of the Union Jack and end the Anglican church. Plot lost.
 
Soutra said:
1. The vaccination program has worked well.

Nobody could doubt this. However it's clear that it is the government's only way out if the pandemic. So -

2. Test and trace has cost billions and hasn't worked, and isn't working.
3. People self isolating have not been monitored to make sure they are.
4. The quarantine system is still not operational, and some cabinet ministers say it is unworkable (according to the Sunday Times).
5. Contracts for supply of everything from PPE supply to test and trace have been handed to Tory cronies with no performance checking.
6. Infection rates, hospitalizations and fatalities are the worst in the Western world.

But in spite of this, Keir and Labour are sitting on their hands in the glare of the headlights. He needs to call the government out by explaining what he would do differently. The electorate doesn't like subtlety and nuance. Just choose a position and stick to it. Johnson won't be able to defend his performance on anything except vaccinations, so nobody would say it was political point scoring.

But instead it's let's wear suits, stand in front of the Union Jack and end the Anglican church. Plot lost.
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But the battleground will be different in a few years time, you fight an election at the time.

Personally, and I am a Labour voter, I prefer to see the Tories squirming with internal division at the moment on how to unlock, whether or not to quarantine travellers, getting the kids back to school, when to put taxes up, how to save the City after Brexit, how to reform or privatise the NHS.

Let‘s see how they get on and then offer something better at the next election.
 
HolgateCorner said:
But the battleground will be different in a few years time, you fight an election at the time.

Personally, and I am a Labour voter, I prefer to see the Tories squirming with internal division at the moment on how to unlock, whether or not to quarantine travellers, getting the kids back to school, when to put taxes up, how to save the City after Brexit, how to reform or privatise the NHS.

Let‘s see how they get on and then offer something better at the next election.
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The squirming seems to be going well as they 5% ahead in the polls
 
The Tories will be laughing at Labour infighting big time. Corbyn was a gift to them, virtually guaranteed Government with him in opposition. How Labour have a sensible leader who could lead them back into Government the left of the party is trying to sabotage it.

Madness. The hard right and hard left in this country have a lot in common, they both want a Tory government.
 
Hicktonpen10 said:
The squirming seems to be going well as they 5% ahead in the polls
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For now, wait until the free furlough holidays end and turn into universal credit, the taxes go up and they start tampering with the NHS.

There will be plenty for Labour to go at, hence the current squirming in the background,
 
Alvez_48 said:
Having spent the past 5 or so years bad mouthing Corbyn @coluka wants us to stfu now that a nobody is in charge of labour. Pot meet kettle.
Frankly the best thing to happen would be a new party that represents the working class and stops s***ing themselves every time an interviewer asks them identity politics b***ks.
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Firstly, criticising him i did. I was correct to do so, he won nowt and let down his party and the electorate too ultimately. He was unelectable, history proved me right. Carry on like this and you will have another tory government though. The centre ground holds the key to power always will. The winning party will be the one the centre ground least dislikes.
 
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ChrisTheRed said:
100% this board is in the main abnormal on most things. It quite strange reading comments from the wider public and then coming on here. It's like two different worlds.
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Totally agree there Christhered, I've never known such anger, hate & name calling as some posters show on here
The majority will be fine, on both sides may I add, but people have wished ill on others to hopefully prove a point
 
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