How can anyone take the Labour Party seriously any more.

[HolgateCorner]

The Tories will be laughing at Labour infighting big time. Corbyn was a gift to them, virtually guaranteed Government with him in opposition. How Labour have a sensible leader who could lead them back into Government the left of the party is trying to sabotage it.

Madness. The hard right and hard left in this country have a lot in common, they both want a Tory government.

I don’t think infighting matters.

Look at the state of the Tories.

You need to convince enough people you will form a good government that will deal with the issues of the day.

If Labour do that they will win.

If the Tories do it they will win.

The rest is just background noise.

 

[coluka]

I disagree that Starmer can gain ground by hiding away. He's getting a reputation as Captain Hindsight and the opposition needs to strike while the iron is hot. The longer he sits on his hands the less tenable his position is in my view.

I understand your view, i just think it would play to the hands of Johnson as it would be then used to deflect from his and his governments ongoing failures by Johnson. Something else other than his failures to talk about and distract. He can’t enact any of his ideas anyway but Johnson could reinvent some as if they were his own if he thought they were populist and vote winners in the heartlands of the red wall constituencies and elsewhere. Keeping gaff free and powder dry, It really works in daily life, why not politics.

 

[Hicktonpen10]

For now, wait until the free furlough holidays end and turn into universal credit, the taxes go up and they start tampering with the NHS.

There will be plenty for Labour to go at, hence the current squirming in the background,

You may be right just wanted to point out the current state of play.

 

[ChrisTheRed]

Totally agree there Christhered, I've never known such anger, hate & name calling as some posters show on here
The majority will be fine, on both sides may I add, but people have wished ill on others to hopefully prove a point

Its incredible really. We aren't all meant to agree on everything and we can argue our points but there doesn't always have to be a "winner" beating their chest at the end which is all that matters to some on here. There is a particular group that are as thick as thieves and turn a debate into something that is tantamount to bullying most of the time.

 

[toxic_bob]

5% behind in polls is not too bad at the moment.
The tories have ‘done brexit’, they are getting a boost from vaccination, lots of people like ‘Boris’ (for some inexplicable reason).
There is plenty of time until the next election.

 

[bear66]

1. The vaccination program has worked well.

Nobody could doubt this. However it's clear that it is the government's only way out if the pandemic. So -

2. Test and trace has cost billions and hasn't worked, and isn't working.
3. People self isolating have not been monitored to make sure they are.
4. The quarantine system is still not operational, and some cabinet ministers say it is unworkable (according to the Sunday Times).
5. Contracts for supply of everything from PPE supply to test and trace have been handed to Tory cronies with no performance checking.
6. Infection rates, hospitalizations and fatalities are the worst in the Western world.

But in spite of this, Keir and Labour are sitting on their hands in the glare of the headlights. He needs to call the government out by explaining what he would do differently. The electorate doesn't like subtlety and nuance. Just choose a position and stick to it. Johnson won't be able to defend his performance on anything except vaccinations, so nobody would say it was political point scoring.

But instead it's let's wear suits, stand in front of the Union Jack and end the Anglican church. Plot lost.

Every time he calls the government out (every weeknin PMQ) he's accused of duplicitous politics. And then idiots say he wants to end the Anglican Church.

 

[Londons_Moggie]

And the Tories have done what to stop the use exactly?

Those figures above show that it has got worse beyond belief under Tory governance

Even the Trussell Trust said this was down to Tory policy on 2017

https://www.trusselltrust.org/2017/11/07/foodbank-demand-soars-across-uk/

Just pointing out facts

 

[Abel Tasman]

You maybe right but what on earth is Khan up to in London with his statue commission or is that fantasy as well

Yes that’s another subject that has riled up the Mail and the Sun to the point of mouth frothing. Strange really. Anything that gets up Rees Mogg’s extremely snooty nose isn’t too bad in my book. With all the issues in the economy and the management of the pandemic, fancy getting upset about a commission set up with a purpose of reviewing the stock of public statues - the least of our many troubles. The least.

 

[r00fie1]

 

[Chris_Boro]

View attachment 13676

Poll of polls gives a clearer picture. The Tories have benefitted from a small vaccine bounce with Labour averaging about 37/38 points. 33 is a bit of an anomaly right now. If anything I expected the Tories to poll higher.

Given the topic of the thread, not sure Labour could do anything to combat the positives that the Tories will naturally gain from the vaccine rollout.

People can't vote for the NHS.

Link for poll of polls for those interested.

 

[Muttley]

He's getting a reputation as Captain Hindsight

FFS parroting the shight that Johnson spouts on PM questions as "getting a reputation" is about as pathetic a kowtow as I can think of.

 

[Londons_Moggie]

I'd be very surprised if there is a Labour government in the next 25 years. They are unelectable without the working classes of England and the Scots. Neither is going to go back to voting Labour in their lifetimes, as the party 5hit on them . You can't insult and alienate your key demographics and expect to win them back and ever win an election. Labour are screwed. The Tories have an opportunity to finish them off. If they make good on levelling up, then those lent votes from the last GE will never go back. Labours only chance of redemption is if the Tories don't invest in the North, which it appears they are hell bent on doing, therefore putting the final nail in Labours coffin. RIP the Labour Party

 

[Laughing]

I'd be very surprised if there is a Labour government in the next 25 years. They are unelectable without the working classes of England and the Scots. Neither is going to go back to voting Labour in their lifetimes, as the party 5hit on them . You can't insult and alienate your key demographics and expect to win them back and ever win an election. Labour are screwed. The Tories have an opportunity to finish them off. If they make good on levelling up, then those lent votes from the last GE will never go back. Labours only chance of redemption is if the Tories don't invest in the North, which it appears they are hell bent on doing, therefore putting the final nail in Labours coffin. RIP the Labour Party

I am certain I don't agree with that sentiment, not one bit LM. The brexit debacle is starting to bite and plenty of people who voted to leave the EU who have now changed their mind will not trust the tory government. Over the next 12 months I would expect to see a swing to labour, over and above the gains made.

Of course Starmer will have to perform better, he cannot just hope the tories keep screwing up.

 

[Piccadilly Day Tripper]

I'd be very surprised if there is a Labour government in the next 25 years. They are unelectable without the working classes of England and the Scots. Neither is going to go back to voting Labour in their lifetimes, as the party 5hit on them . You can't insult and alienate your key demographics and expect to win them back and ever win an election. Labour are screwed. The Tories have an opportunity to finish them off. If they make good on levelling up, then those lent votes from the last GE will never go back. Labours only chance of redemption is if the Tories don't invest in the North, which it appears they are hell bent on doing, therefore putting the final nail in Labours coffin. RIP the Labour Party

Put your fishing rod away, man!

 

[Colin Warnek]

I am certain I don't agree with that sentiment, not one bit LM. The brexit debacle is starting to bite and plenty of people who voted to leave the EU who have now changed their mind will not trust the tory government. Over the next 12 months I would expect to see a swing to labour, over and above the gains made.

Of course Starmer will have to perform better, he cannot just hope the tories keep screwing up.

No matter how bad the Tories have been and will be, Labour still need to provide a credible alternative. They won't get in just by being the non-Tory party.
As long as such rubbish as in my opening post continues, they haven't a prayer.

 

[Joy_Division_Oven_Gloves]

We are a right wing country (England) and voting patterns demonstrate that. We live in an ‘I’m alright Jack’ culture. Friends of mine good, decent working lads are blinded by the rhetoric of the right wing media and the drip feeding alienation of the the ‘other’. They, like so many others, resent the fact that so-called scroungers and/or foreigners might just get something for nothing.
we really need Starmer to get at the PM and expose him for what he is.

 

[Londons_Moggie]

I am certain I don't agree with that sentiment, not one bit LM. The brexit debacle is starting to bite and plenty of people who voted to leave the EU who have now changed their mind will not trust the tory government. Over the next 12 months I would expect to see a swing to labour, over and above the gains made.

Of course Starmer will have to perform better, he cannot just hope the tories keep screwing up.

I just don't see how a man who is losing in the polls to a man responsible for 100K deaths is going to win an election. The lent votes will likely never go back despite what happens with Brexit or the pandemic. Labour's stance on trying to reverse the democratic Brexit vote lost swaths of voters they'll never get back. It was arguably the greatest piece of political suicide in my lifetime. sneering at your voters is never a way to win their trust. That trust has been eradicated and it'll never come back. I just don't see how they can possibly win any future elections when millions on principal will refuse to vote for them. I genuinely believe they are on the verge. If the Tories post Brexit plans to bring jobs to working class areas, that's Labour done for. As a life long Labour voter I would not vote for them at present

 

[r00fie1]

Peer Mandelson was ‘intensely relaxed’ about ‘filthy’ amounts of wealth – and said worrying about working-class voters was a waste of time. Now Keir Starmer hopes bringing him in will appeal to voters who deserted Labour over Brexit​

Keir Starmer has called in former Blair adviser Peter Mandelson to get him out of the hole he has dug for himself, completing his headlong rush back to the worst of ‘New Labour’.


Starmer has no hope of getting near power without winning back the working-class voters he drove away from Labour with his 2018 sabotage of Labour’s promise to hold a new EU referendum with ‘nobody… ruling out remain remain as an option’ – and has embarrassingly draped himself in the Union Flag, as if that’s what working-class people want to see. Unsurprisingly, working-class people see right through the ruse and both Starmer and Labour have fallen sharply in the polls.


So now ‘Forensic’ has decided that the way to save himself is to bring in Peter Mandelson, the elitist peer who infamously said that worrying about working-class voters was a waste of time because ‘they’ve got nowhere to go’:


Mandelson has also said that he was ‘intensely relaxed’ about people becoming ‘filthy rich’ – a guaranteed vote-winner with millions in poverty and approaching another million people out of work because of the Tories’ mishandling of the pandemic crisis.

The same Boris Johnson Tories leaving Starmer flailing in their wake.

Not satisfied with that, Mandelson went on to ‘shake UK politics’ by meeting Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska on his ‘superyacht’, where he chatted cosily with Tory then-Shadow Chancellor George Osborne – and subsequently gave trade concessions that benefited the billionaire by an estimated $50 million:

• 
• 

And, of course, Mandelson was at the heart of attempts to overturn the Brexit referendum result as a director (until 2019) of Open Britain, which promoted the so-called ‘People’s Vote’ campaign – exactly the way to the hearts of the leave-voting towns Labour has to win back to have even a sniff of getting into Downing Street.

Senior Labour back-bencher Jon Trickett recently mocked the ‘strategic genius‘ of Starmer’s disastrous tenure so far. It will be interesting to see what he and other working-class MPs make of this latest fiasco, but it’s a safe bet that working-class voters will be ‘intensely unimpressed’.

 

[delgrapos]

FFS parroting the shight that Johnson spouts on PM questions as "getting a reputation" is about as pathetic a kowtow as I can think of.

Once Johnson had dropped that one a few times, the amount of people using the tag on various political threads is unbelievable, Muttley

 

[HolgateCorner]

I just don't see how a man who is losing in the polls to a man responsible for 100K deaths is going to win an election. The lent votes will likely never go back despite what happens with Brexit or the pandemic. Labour's stance on trying to reverse the democratic Brexit vote lost swaths of voters they'll never get back. It was arguably the greatest piece of political suicide in my lifetime. sneering at your voters is never a way to win their trust. That trust has been eradicated and it'll never come back. I just don't see how they can possibly win any future elections when millions on principal will refuse to vote for them. I genuinely believe they are on the verge. If the Tories post Brexit plans to bring jobs to working class areas, that's Labour done for. As a life long Labour voter I would not vote for them at present

You were doing well until you put ‘as a life long Labour voter’.

If the country wants to vote Tory then that’s democracy isn’t it?

Labour cannot force voters to vote for a more fair and equal society if that’s not what Joe public wants.