Fury v Whyte

Alzi said:
So who are the quality opponents?

I'd argue Wilder is more dangerous than any of them.
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Wilder can punch, so yes he is dangerous, but he's only ever KOd one top 10 HW and that was a 40 year old with a heart defect.

Wilder is massively over rated, Fury absolutely dismantled him, punished him, far more than he did with Whyte. Wilder has the worst defence of any long term title holder that I can remember. The guy is just waiting to be KOd and if he'd fought anyone decent before Ortiz and Fury he would have been KOd long before now
 
BoroMart said:
I think his point about AJs resume is fair though. They've both fought Whyte and Klitschko. So is fighting the dangerous but technically poor Wilder better than Parker, Povetkin, Ruiz, Pulev. I'm not so sure.
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Including most of those names in the discussion is just silly though, Fury would absolutely dismantle the versions of Povetkin and Pulev that Joshua beat.

The Parker win was good for Joshua but he's not really going to trouble Fury either. Finally, Joshua is 1/2 against Ruiz so does that really boost his resume?

I would agree that Joshua has more names on his record but using that to detract away from Fury's ability is ridiculous which is what the original post was doing.
 
BoroMart said:
I think his point about AJs resume is fair though. They've both fought Whyte and Klitschko. So is fighting the dangerous but technically poor Wilder better than Parker, Povetkin, Ruiz, Pulev. I'm not so sure.

What we do see now is that Fury has found his punching power that evaded him for a long time, that makes him a much more dangerous man than he was 2 years ago. He can and is hurting people, rather than just frustrating them. Fury is the best right now, I doubt many argue with that, but I think his record is a bit thin to be considered an all time great. At the same time I think AJs career gets down played a little, his acheivements as a two time champ with 7 defences against decent opposition is played down.
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Oway Mart.

The list of names there that AJ has fought is hardly great. None of them would stand a chance against Fury really.

I honestly think a techincally poor (but dangerous puncher) Wilder is better than all of them. The fact Ruiz & Parker are on that list says everything.

Plus AJ actually has a loss to his name against Ruiz. That doesn't stand up well at all.

And even though they both fought Whyte & Klitchsko, Fury actually went out of the UK and beat Klitschko convincingly, which was Wladimir's first defeat in over 14 years, whereas Joshua faced him nearly 2 years later when he was 41 years old.

Also, Fury fought Whyte when he was arguably at his career best.

Personally, I don't think Joshua should ever be spoken about in the same class as Fury. They're miles apart in the Heavyweight division in my honest opinion.
 
I've said it on this board before you can pick holes in every fighters resume if you want but if you look at Fury and Joshua I don't actually think AJ's record is that much better if you actually disect it.

Look at who they've both beaten: Klitschko, Whyte and Kevin Johnson, so pretty even there.

Outside of that who are their best wins? For Fury you'd say Wilder x2 and Chisora x 2.

For AJ you'd say Parker, Povetkin, Takam and Pulev. Is this list any better than beating Wilder in America twice and a prime Chisora twice? Old Chisora beat Takam and I don't think an old Povetkin and Pulev are much better than a prime Chisora.

I didn't include Andy Ruiz because AJ is 50/50 with him and he also lost to Usyk.

Following that you get names on their resume like Brazeale, Molina and Martin for Joshua.
And Wallin, Schwartz and Hammer for Fury. Is there much difference between those opponents?

Joshua has more top 20 ranked opponents on his record but he also has 2 losses. I don't think his resume is actually that much better.

The records looked so much different a few years ago when Fury was out of action and out of shape and AJ was defending world titles every six months in stadium fights. Fury then came back against Seferi and Pianeta which obviously looked poor compared to AJs opponents at the time. But standing here today I think you can make an argument for Fury's resume being not far short or even equal to Joshua's.
 
Marvanelli said:
Oway Mart.

The list of names there that AJ has fought is hardly great. None of them would stand a chance against Fury really.

I honestly think a techincally poor (but dangerous puncher) Wilder is better than all of them. The fact Ruiz & Parker are on that list says everything.

Plus AJ actually has a loss to his name against Ruiz. That doesn't stand up well at all.

And even though they both fought Whyte & Klitchsko, Fury actually went out of the UK and beat Klitschko convincingly, which was Wladimir's first defeat in over 14 years, whereas Joshua faced him nearly 2 years later when he was 41 years old.

Also, Fury fought Whyte when he was arguably at his career best.

Personally, I don't think Joshua should ever be spoken about in the same class as Fury. They're miles apart in the Heavyweight division in my honest opinion.
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Give it a few minutes and you'll be told that the 41 year old Klitschko was better than the one Fury dominated. These fighters just happen to throw career low amount of punches against incredible boxers, it's a decision they make, I'll go into this fight and I won't throw, that's the gameplan. Nothing at all to do with what these incredible boxers like Fury and Usyk are doing.

Whyte threw 460 punches against AJ in 7 rounds, he threw 171 in 6 against Fury, can't believe he did that, must be a coincidence.
 
Chappy112 said:
Give it a few minutes and you'll be told that the 41 year old Klitschko was better than the one Fury dominated. These fighters just happen to throw career low amount of punches against incredible boxers, it's a decision they make, I'll go into this fight and I won't throw, that's the gameplan. Nothing at all to do with what these incredible boxers like Fury and Usyk are doing.

Whyte threw 460 punches against AJ in 7 rounds, he threw 171 in 6 against Fury, can't believe he did that, must be a coincidence.
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Against "feather fisted" Fury that all the AJ fans think Joshua will walk through.

There's a reason no one walks though Fury.
 
Paris admitted Tyson’s would be interested in the unification fight in an interview after the fight. It’s just a question of timescales for me, realistically you’re looking at middle to back end of 2023. Uysk vs AJ doesn’t even have a date set.

The longer it goes on the less likely it happens. I think Fury vs AJ is gone, I don’t see him beating Uysk as much as I would like him to.

Can AJ take a tune up fight before Uysk?
 
Alzi said:
So who are the quality opponents?

I'd argue Wilder is more dangerous than any of them.
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I would tend to agree but I think the depth of quality on AJs Cv eclipses that of Tyson’s. Most of the other names Tyson has fought nobody had ever heard of before Tyson fought them.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Against "feather fisted" Fury that all the AJ fans think Joshua will walk through.

There's a reason no one walks though Fury.
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It's a complete myth that Fury can't punch. Look at the damage he has done in his last 2 fights. Whyte would have just walked through him if he had no power.

He doesn't have the show muscles of someone like Joshua but he has much better conditioning and is a very strong bloke who knows how to use his height and weight advantage.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Including most of those names in the discussion is just silly though, Fury would absolutely dismantle the versions of Povetkin and Pulev that Joshua beat.

The Parker win was good for Joshua but he's not really going to trouble Fury either. Finally, Joshua is 1/2 against Ruiz so does that really boost his resume?

I would agree that Joshua has more names on his record but using that to detract away from Fury's ability is ridiculous which is what the original post was doing.
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I wouldn't say it detracts against Fury's ability, but it does detract against Fury's record.

Fury has won 4 world title fights, that's not enough.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Against "feather fisted" Fury that all the AJ fans think Joshua will walk through.

There's a reason no one walks though Fury.
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I'm an AJ fan and dont think he will walk through Fury, Fury is the big favourite and should win! So your comment is based on absolutely nothing other than your own agenda!
 
Marvanelli said:
The list of names there that AJ has fought is hardly great. None of them would stand a chance against Fury really.
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they wouldn't have much more than a punchers chance, but the point is more that Fury has never fought these guys, and has only fought 5 fights against people above those. So to retire with that resume leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
 
Marvanelli said:
Plus AJ actually has a loss to his name against Ruiz. That doesn't stand up well at all.
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Ruiz isn't a bum though, and he's better than Wallin who had Fury in trouble. The point is that Joshua put it on the line with competent and dangerous punchers time and again, eventually one of them clipped him, it was a great punch but lucky too. Fury really needed more fights against that level of opponent to show he had the commitment and concentration levels through his career. Remember how he did against Seferi, Paineta and Wallin. Those kind of guys caused him problems, because he didn't get 'up' for those fights, Joshua was happy to dance with these dangerous boxers and beat them.
 
QUOTE="BoroMart, post: 724712, member: 790"]
I wouldn't say it detracts against Fury's ability, but it does detract against Fury's record.

Fury has won 4 world title fights, that's not enough.
[/QUOTE]

Not enough for what? To have a record as good as AJ's?
 
supermfc said:
I'm an AJ fan and dont think he will walk through Fury, Fury is the big favourite and should win! So your comment is based on absolutely nothing other than your own agenda!
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Its based on the comments I've heard and read from AJ fans for years. You speak for yourself not every AJ fan.
 
Chappy112 said:
Give it a few minutes and you'll be told that the 41 year old Klitschko was better than the one Fury dominated.
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I'd say that mentally he was invigorated again.

Chappy112 said:
Nothing at all to do with what these incredible boxers like Fury and Usyk are doing.
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Fury is clearly an unbelievably talented boxer, and has really upped his game in teh last 2 years adding more aggression and power. He should have got with Sugarhill years ago.

Uwefuchs said:
Against "feather fisted" Fury that all the AJ fans think Joshua will walk through.
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I don't think anyone has said that. I think he is a bigger challenge than Wilder though, because Joshua can actually box, can block a shot. I'd give him a 20-30% chance of beating Fury, because he is big enough like Wilder, can hit but can also defend himself properly. Fury can be hit, and has been hurt many times not just by Wilder. He isn't impregnable. He'd still be heavy favourite to beat Joshua, but I wouldn't right him off completely.

It's a fight most brits would love to see. Much more than Fury vs Usyk. But Joshua has to find his confidence first to beat Usyk.
 
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