Fury v Whyte

Jedi boro said:
Could he survive another loss though??

For me his credibility went when he he took that Saudi fight shocking PR move and showed he is just a brand after all.
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Nonsense - was Ali just a brand when he fought in Zaire and Manilla? AJ could fight in your back garden for free and you would still find something to whinge about hin!!
 
Uwefuchs said:
To beat Fury you need to extremely skilled andhave great footwork to close the gaps. I'm sure a prime Mike Tyson would have been able to cut the ring down and get inside Fury's jab and I think Usyk will cause him some problems. Or, you need to be a similar size to Fury and be able to outjab him which I'm sure Lennox Lewis could have done.
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Tyson wouldn't have stood any chance at all, he's one of hte most over rated ever, never beat a champ with a defence on his record, most of his career was KOing tomato cans, then put in with third rate champs like Burbick. Got mauled once he was in with anyone of any class.

Prime Lewis would definitely have had an excellent chance of beating him, one of the top 5 greatest heavyweights of all time.
 
Chappy112 said:
If Fury retired now he would be a hall of famer and maybe a top 20 heavyweight of all time but nothing more and that is absolutely fine if that's what he wants to do, beating Joshua at this point certainly wouldn't bump him up that list anymore, Usyk would though in my opinion.
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IF AJ regains the titles and becomes a three time champ, then that's when Fury should fight him, and if he beat AJ it would enhance his resume.
 
Jedi boro said:
Could he survive another loss though??

For me his credibility went when he he took that Saudi fight shocking PR move and showed he is just a brand after all.
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come on, he's hardly just a brand. knock him for his sponsorships and PR, but to say he is just a brand is OTT. He's had an excellent career, you don't win the title twice if you aren't a decent boxer, you don't KO a Klitschko, be the first to stop Pulev and Povetkin if you haven't power and skill. AJ has 9 world title fight wins, Fury has just 4. Long way behind Lennox Lewis's 16 for them both mind. Fury does still have a lot to prove, retiring with 4 world title wins isn't the kind of legacy of an all time great.
 
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Chappy112 said:
I agree but your point was that Usyk would be an all time great which would make him the best heavyweight of the generation which isn't true, Usyk is an all time great because of his cruiserweight legacy and winning a heavyweight title, that alone does not make him the best of his generation at heavyweight. He'd have to do quite a bit to get ahead of Fury and I'm not sure that the fights are there at the moment.
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I can't see how Fury could be determined the best of his generation if he retired and Usyk remained undefeated and became undisputed. Of course, some people may say he was the best - but that would be merely subjective. Fury would have left some legacy defying fights on the table. It would have been within his power to prove more, but decided not to do so. If Usyk does all he can - that would make him a better Heavyweight than Fury for many. But it would also be backed up by being the undisputed champion. Something Fury failed to pursue.
 
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JustTheGent said:
I can't see how Fury could be determined the best of his generation if he retired and Usyk remained undefeated and became undisputed. Of course, some people may say he was the best - but that would be merely subjective. Fury would have left some legacy defying fights on the table. It would have been within his power to prove more, but decided not to do so. If Usyk does all he can - that would make him a better Heavyweight than Fury for many. But it would also be backed up by being the undisputed champion. Something Fury failed to pursue.
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This argument can be used for many fighters who have retired, there's always something that a remaining fighter can do to surpass them. At this moment Fury is the greatest of his generation, if and when Usyk surpasses him then he will be the best of his generation but like I said, I'm not sure how Usyk does that, being undisputed champion doesn't automatically make you the best of the generation, it depends who you beat along the way. Not that I care either way, Fury and Usyk are two of my favourite fighters.

I'd like to see Fury vs Usyk and Fury vs Joshua but if he decides to get out of the game with a functioning brain and as a rich man at the expense of extending his legacy then I would never knock a man for doing that in such a brutal sport.
 
Chappy112 said:
This argument can be used for many fighters who have retired, there's always something that a remaining fighter can do to surpass them. At this moment Fury is the greatest of his generation, if and when Usyk surpasses him then he will be the best of his generation but like I said, I'm not sure how Usyk does that, being undisputed champion doesn't automatically make you the best of the generation, it depends who you beat along the way. Not that I care either way, Fury and Usyk are two of my favourite fighters.

I'd like to see Fury vs Usyk and Fury vs Joshua but if he decides to get out of the game with a functioning brain and as a rich man at the expense of extending his legacy then I would never knock a man for doing that in such a brutal sport.
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Surely in that event, Usyk becoming undisputed would trump what Fury has done. We haven't had an undisputed HW since Lennox. Who went out and proved he was the greatest of his era, look at his record, it's frightening. When you compare that to Fury's it's nowhere near. All this self-proclaimed greatness is a bit OTT.

I think Usyk is technically the best boxer of the lot & causes them all so many problems. Credit to AJ for not ducking the fight originally. I look forward to the rematch & can see it going either way.
 
Usyk has had 3 fights at heavyweight.

3 fights

I rate him highly but any talk about him becoming greatest of his generation is very premature.

I personally think that Fury wil not retire, but will instead fight the winner of the next AJ / Usyk fight.
 
Loop said:
Surely in that event, Usyk becoming undisputed would trump what Fury has done. We haven't had an undisputed HW since Lennox. Who went out and proved he was the greatest of his era, look at his record, it's frightening. When you compare that to Fury's it's nowhere near. All this self-proclaimed greatness is a bit OTT.

I think Usyk is technically the best boxer of the lot & causes them all so many problems. Credit to AJ for not ducking the fight originally. I look forward to the rematch & can see it going either way.
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Look at who else was has been undisputed champion, that alone does not make you the best of your era. It was the icing on the cake for Lennox, not the reason he was the best of his era.

You think beating Chisora, Chazz Witherspoon and AJ twice is better than dethroning Klitschko, beating Wilder 3 times, destroying Whyte, beating a prime Chisora twice etc?

Zab Judah was the last undisputed welterweight champion, do you reckon that makes him the best of his era?

As for the 2nd part, I’d never argue with anyone who said Usyk is the best technically, he is phenomenal.
 
Steer said:
Usyk has had 3 fights at heavyweight.

3 fights

I rate him highly but any talk about him becoming greatest of his generation is very premature.

I personally think that Fury wil not retire, but will instead fight the winner of the next AJ / Usyk fight.
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If he wins the rematch and defends twice which he could do in the next 14 months, then he will have won as many HW championship fights as Fury in his entire career. He'd definitely be pushing Fury's legacy at that point.
 
Steer said:
Usyk has had 3 fights at heavyweight.

3 fights

I rate him highly but any talk about him becoming greatest of his generation is very premature.

I personally think that Fury wil not retire, but will instead fight the winner of the next AJ / Usyk fight.
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You could argue it's even more impressive that he battered Joshua in his 3rd ever HW fight. You just need to look at his Amateur record ( 335−15) and what he did at cruiserweight to know he's a bit special.

I'll be amazed if he loses to Joshua in the rematch, it wasn't a fluke type Ruiz win he is just a better boxer.
 
Alzi said:
You could argue it's even more impressive that he battered Joshua in his 3rd ever HW fight. You just need to look at his Amateur record ( 335−15) and what he did at cruiserweight to know he's a bit special.

I'll be amazed if he loses to Joshua in the rematch, it wasn't a fluke type Ruiz win he is just a better boxer.
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agreed that the Ruiz win was a fluke (AJ went in too quickly to finish him off) and that Usyk wasn't lucky to beat AJ. I expect AJ to put up a much better effort in the second fight, try and turn into a physical brawl. Maybe he will be too big if he does that, maybe Usyk will still find a way. I'd have Usyk 60-70% favourite for the rematch and yes damned impressive to do that in the first AJ fight while still effectively a blown up cruiserweight. His footwork, head moment, distance management and hand speed are all phenomenal
 
Marvanelli said:
Oh dear. No wonder @TheHolgate has gone AWOL since Saturday night.

To even put AJ in the same category of quality as Fury is laughable. But to suggest he's better than Fury shows your lack of knowledge and understanding of the sport.
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It's just a bit embarrassing really to suggest the likes of Pulev, Ruiz and Parker are more dangerous than Wilder.

The reason he hasn't fought them is because they're average and not contenders. That's why the likes of Hughie Fury and Chisora fight them.

It's like saying we can't judge Man City till they have beaten Hartlepool.
 
Marvanelli said:
Oh dear. No wonder @TheHolgate has gone AWOL since Saturday night.

To even put AJ in the same category of quality as Fury is laughable. But to suggest he's better than Fury shows your lack of knowledge and understanding of the sport.
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I think his point about AJs resume is fair though. They've both fought Whyte and Klitschko. So is fighting the dangerous but technically poor Wilder better than Parker, Povetkin, Ruiz, Pulev. I'm not so sure.

What we do see now is that Fury has found his punching power that evaded him for a long time, that makes him a much more dangerous man than he was 2 years ago. He can and is hurting people, rather than just frustrating them. Fury is the best right now, I doubt many argue with that, but I think his record is a bit thin to be considered an all time great. At the same time I think AJs career gets down played a little, his acheivements as a two time champ with 7 defences against decent opposition is played down.
 
Alzi said:
The mental gymnastics to prove AJ has a better CV must be getting increasingly difficult!
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So they have both beaten Whtye and Klitscko so I guess it depends how you measure the three wilder fights against Joshua’s wins. I don’t think any gymnastics needed. The depth of quality opponents is on Joshua’s side for sure.
 
FatCat said:
So they have both beaten Whtye and Klitscko so I guess it depends how you measure the three wilder fights against Joshua’s wins. I don’t think any gymnastics needed. The depth of quality opponents is on Joshua’s side for sure.
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So who are the quality opponents?

I'd argue Wilder is more dangerous than any of them.
 
Chappy112 said:
Look at who else was has been undisputed champion, that alone does not make you the best of your era. It was the icing on the cake for Lennox, not the reason he was the best of his era.

You think beating Chisora, Chazz Witherspoon and AJ twice is better than dethroning Klitschko, beating Wilder 3 times, destroying Whyte, beating a prime Chisora twice etc?

Zab Judah was the last undisputed welterweight champion, do you reckon that makes him the best of his era?

As for the 2nd part, I’d never argue with anyone who said Usyk is the best technically, he is phenomenal.
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He hasn't beat Wilder 3 times (technically)
 
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