Fraudiola

InglebyUTB said:
But if he’s the best with the best squad and budget then he should be able to do that.

Even SAF didn’t have the financial backing of a literal oil state. Yes he had financial backing, but much of it was financed because of how he built the club up from where he took it over.

Pep had literally being plonked into the job and given an almost a blank chequebook, the expectations are of course significantly higher.

I think fraud is too far, he’s an excellent coach. An Auteur of football management.

Which I think is fine over a 38 game season when he’s mostly smashing teams with squads thatvare worth 2-3 of his substitutes, it then comes down to a mini-league with the Top 6 and how many points he can take off them to win the league.

But in a cup competition such as the Champions League, I almost get the impression he’d rather lose his way than adapt and win it.

So yes good manager, wouldn’t personally be in my top five in the PL over the years.

Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp would 100% be top three for me, probably followed by Mourinho. There’s an argument for him at No5. But then I think of Conte who came in at Chelsea and won the league against expectations, Ranieri who won the league against any kind of expectation.

That’s another strike against Pep, he’s never done anything in his career that wasn’t expected. You expect to win league titles with Barcelona, Bayern and Man City, go and achieve something extraordinary like a big treble, a quadruple or Mourinho winning the big one with Porto. He just hasn’t.

Even looking ahead to next season, they’ve went an splashed some of their sportswashing fortune on Haaland. Which is fine, but again but expect people to lavish praise on Pep for winning another league cup or Premier League title after simply choosing to buy the best young striker in the world as oppose to developing one.

There’s little skill in doing that, much like the media’s praise of Scott Parker is nonsense.

He’s not a top young manager, he’s got 2 promotions off the back of 2 of the best squads and biggest budgets.
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SAF had all the resources available to him, where he regularly bought all the best players around & has two European cups to show for it. He then got walloped by Pep in two CL finals.

Everyone knows the EPL is such a competitive league to win, I can't believe you're trying to suggest it's an easy feat for him. Downplaying every achievement, are you a scouser?

5th?! 😅 You really don't like him, do you?! There's only SAF who has achieved more in the game & largely down to the amount of time he spent in the game, the others are good managers, but not close - just look at the trophy haul.

Was winning the first sextuple expected? Dominating football in each of the countries he's been to, significantly improving that home nation's chances at international - literally, no other manager has had that effect.

Haalands buy-out clause is around 50m hardly splashing the cash in today's transfers. I suppose you can always look to Messi to see how he does when developing a player (y)

Which manager out there has won the league with a garbage team?

I'm not sure what he'd have to do to convince you anyway, even if he did win the CL with Man City, you'd come out with the same trash again "oh he's expected to do that"🙄
 
InglebyUTB said:
Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp would 100% be top three for me, probably followed by Mourinho. There’s an argument for him at No5. But then I think of Conte who came in at Chelsea and won the league against expectations, Ranieri who won the league against any kind of expectation.
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Pretty ridiculous to suggest Guardiola is 5th on that list!
 
InglebyUTB said:
But if he’s the best with the best squad and budget then he should be able to do that.

Even SAF didn’t have the financial backing of a literal oil state. Yes he had financial backing, but much of it was financed because of how he built the club up from where he took it over.

Pep had literally being plonked into the job and given an almost a blank chequebook, the expectations are of course significantly higher.

I think fraud is too far, he’s an excellent coach. An Auteur of football management.

Which I think is fine over a 38 game season when he’s mostly smashing teams with squads thatvare worth 2-3 of his substitutes, it then comes down to a mini-league with the Top 6 and how many points he can take off them to win the league.

But in a cup competition such as the Champions League, I almost get the impression he’d rather lose his way than adapt and win it.

So yes good manager, wouldn’t personally be in my top five in the PL over the years.

Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp would 100% be top three for me, probably followed by Mourinho. There’s an argument for him at No5. But then I think of Conte who came in at Chelsea and won the league against expectations, Ranieri who won the league against any kind of expectation.

That’s another strike against Pep, he’s never done anything in his career that wasn’t expected. You expect to win league titles with Barcelona, Bayern and Man City, go and achieve something extraordinary like a big treble, a quadruple or Mourinho winning the big one with Porto. He just hasn’t.

Even looking ahead to next season, they’ve went an splashed some of their sportswashing fortune on Haaland. Which is fine, but again but expect people to lavish praise on Pep for winning another league cup or Premier League title after simply choosing to buy the best young striker in the world as oppose to developing one.

There’s little skill in doing that, much like the media’s praise of Scott Parker is nonsense.

He’s not a top young manager, he’s got 2 promotions off the back of 2 of the best squads and biggest budgets.
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The fact Pep isn't even in the top 5 of all time PL managers just shows how ridiculous your opinion is of Pep.

He's broken the number of points, being the only team ever to reach 100 points.
He's the first manager to win the English domestic treble.
He broke the record for the longest winning run in English top-flight history.

I could continue and list the crazy number of records he's broken in the 6 seasons he's been at Man City.

As for SAF not having the backing of a literal oil state - he didn't. But he certainly had the biggest budget by a clear distance during his time at Man Utd. Only when Chelsea got Roman is when they started to compete. Other than then, SAF at Utd had the biggest spending power of the league...by a mile too.

I don't even think there's any point in debating with you. I'm flabbergasted how you can list 5 managers in the PL who are ahead of Pep. None of them (other than maybe SAF) have achieved more than him during his managerial career.
And we all know by the time Pep retires, he'll be a lot more decorated than SAF.

As pointed out by another poster, he could go on and win the CL next season and then retain is the following season and yet he'd get no praise from you because that's what he should be winning in your own words....even though the competition in CL is ridiculed by money giants.

Sounds like he could win the World Cup with San Marino and you'd still try and find a way of discrediting it.
 
Pep Guardiola is a world class, legendary manager. Crafted the best club side I've ever seen in Barcelona (2008-2011) and he's come to England and is completely dominating in the most challenging, competitive league in the world. Changed the way the game is played over the last 15 years.
 
In competitions where you are able to outspend the opposition over a sustained period of time, you should win. Anything else is failure. Pep has consistently failed to win the Champions League since leaving Barcelona.
 
JackG said:
In competitions where you are able to outspend the opposition over a sustained period of time, you should win. Anything else is failure. Pep has consistently failed to win the Champions League since leaving Barcelona.
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Realistically, all of those top clubs go and get the players they want, don't they? Liverpool went and spent £75m on a CB. Chelsea go and spend £100m on a CF. Man United spent £70m on Sancho. Arsenal spent the most money out of any of them in the last window.

I think you get to a point where the asking price from clubs around Europe for these players becomes irrelevant because they can all afford it. It's who you choose to buy and how you use them.
 
InglebyUTB said:
Even looking ahead to next season, they’ve went an splashed some of their sportswashing fortune on Haaland. Which is fine, but again but expect people to lavish praise on Pep for winning another league cup or Premier League title after simply choosing to buy the best young striker in the world as oppose to developing one.
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I bet Haaland improves even more under Pep. Just like Sterling did.

Also he's developed Foden internally hasn't he? No club does it with every position, and no club has a monopoly with developing players. Obviously sometimes they're going to sign someone another club has done a great job of developing.
 
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JackG said:
In competitions where you are able to outspend the opposition over a sustained period of time, you should win. Anything else is failure. Pep has consistently failed to win the Champions League since leaving Barcelona.
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Shouldn't PSG be the ones winning the champions league then? I may be mistaken but as far as I'm aware they're the only club to be dishing out £150m signing on fees?
 
Marvanelli said:
Shh. That doesn't fit the narrative.
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Theirs really is what I think of as a galacticos squad. Donnarumma, Ramos, Neymar, Mbappe, Messi... 😱 It's a bit like they're working their way through the top ranked national teams and just buying a star player from each. They'll need a top young English player next - £150m for Tav? :unsure:

It's difficult to compare tops records relative to their transfer fees as obvioualy they're all inflated. I do think there's something to be said for City ultimately refusing to pay over their valuation for Kane last season. If it really was as 'blank chequebook' as some are making out they'd have just paid up and got him wouldn't they?

I think Haalands the first time in a while that city have bought a player and I've really thought that could really move them up another level and bag them the champions league.

Did anyone honestly look at them signing Grealish last year and think he's such a good player and that's such a good signing that they're sure to win the champions league now on the back of it? Not me. He is good, and I thought he'd be even better with Pep but come on it's not like signing a Messi/Ronaldo type figure is it? And yet thats £100m of this "over £1bn" that gets quoted.
 
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If
SuperStu said:
Shouldn't PSG be the ones winning the champions league then? I may be mistaken but as far as I'm aware they're the only club to be dishing out £150m signing on fees?
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Yes they should, and they're rightly mocked for not doing so.

Last time I checked, Poch was on the verge of the sack.
 
The jibe at Guardiola for not winning the Champions League (CL) isn't a fair one. It completely ignores the fact other clubs such as Bayern Munich have since 2012 had brilliant teams. The CL is a cup competition and as shown this season small pieces of luck make a huge difference...

In the Semi-Final in Madrid, the game was as good as over at one point and Man City cruising through. Guardiola made subs that changed the game and but for a fortunate clearance off the line, Man City would be 2 - 0 nil up going into the 89th minute. The Real Madrid second had an incredible bit of luck that a coach/manager can have no influence on. It could easily be the case that Man City are going for a Premier League / CL double tomorrow. Their second final in a row.
 
SuperStu said:
What Nathan Ake and Scott Carson? Cole Palmer and James McAtee? All 4 on the bench for their last game.
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Why did you highlight those and not Walker, Grealish, Ake and Sterling?

Walker - £53m
Grealish - £100m
Ake - £41m
Sterling - £49m

That's £244m worth of talent on the bench, why would you leave that out unless you're being incredibly dishonest and not willing to accept basic facts?

£244m is equal to West Ham's purchase value for their entire squad, the team who drew with them a few weeks back and knocked them out the league cup.

It's more money than 9 times spent on their entire squads, on 4 players who were on the bench. There was also Gundogan and Zinchenko who I haven't included.

The Pep fanboys are no better than the fanboy fc accounts on Twitter who are cult fans of Messi or Ronaldo, it's a pointless argument as they cannot acknowledge basic facts.
 
Nero said:
The jibe at Guardiola for not winning the Champions League (CL) isn't a fair one. It completely ignores the fact other clubs such as Bayern Munich have since 2012 had brilliant teams. The CL is a cup competition and as shown this season small pieces of luck make a huge difference...

In the Semi-Final in Madrid, the game was as good as over at one point and Man City cruising through. Guardiola made subs that changed the game and but for a fortunate clearance off the line, Man City would be 2 - 0 nil up going into the 89th minute. The Real Madrid second had an incredible bit of luck that a coach/manager can have no influence on. It could easily be the case that Man City are going for a Premier League / CL double tomorrow. Their second final in a row.
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He hasn't won it without Messi, it is completely fair.

He cannot be considered the best unless he has won the top prize in Europe, at Bayern and City he has failed to it.
 
InglebyUTB said:
Why did you highlight those and not Walker, Grealish, Ake and Sterling?

Walker - £53m
Grealish - £100m
Ake - £41m
Sterling - £49m

That's £244m worth of talent on the bench, why would you leave that out unless you're being incredibly dishonest and not willing to accept basic facts?

£244m is equal to West Ham's purchase value for their entire squad, the team who drew with them a few weeks back and knocked them out the league cup.

It's more money than 9 times spent on their entire squads, on 4 players who were on the bench. There was also Gundogan and Zinchenko who I haven't included.

The Pep fanboys are no better than the fanboy fc accounts on Twitter who are cult fans of Messi or Ronaldo, it's a pointless argument as they cannot acknowledge basic facts.
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Have Liverpool put their together for peanuts then?

Alisson - £80m?
VVD - £75m
Salah - £35
Mane - £35m
Diaz - £40m
Keita - Wasn't he something like £40 too?
Fabinho - £40m too
Jota - Not sure, but probably £30m

There isn't much difference really.
 
InglebyUTB said:
Why did you highlight those and not Walker, Grealish, Ake and Sterling?
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Why do you think? To make a point. You didn't say the 2-3 most expensive subs on his bench. You said 2 or 3 of his subs. Well there is 4 of his subs.

InglebyUTB said:
Walker - £53m
Grealish - £100m
Ake - £41m
Sterling - £49m

That's £244m worth of talent on the bench, why would you leave that out unless you're being incredibly dishonest and not willing to accept basic facts?
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This is the other point I was trying to make. Its a bit pointless quoting transfer figures. Do you really think these match what those players are worth now?

How much could City realistically sell Ake for? I think theyd get less than half that back. What's Walker worth now? Must be diminishing.

And of course the same applies to other clubs. Is Maguire worth what Utd paid for him? It's why I just don't think transfer values works well as a deciding factor of how well a club is doing, especially when you're dismissing how well they're actually doing as a measure.

InglebyUTB said:
The Pep fanboys are no better than the fanboy fc accounts on Twitter who are cult fans of Messi or Ronaldo, it's a pointless argument as they cannot acknowledge basic facts.
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🤣🤷‍♂️ what basic facts aren't being acknowledged. You said 2-3 subs, I listed 4 players who were factually on their subs bench in the last game of the season v Villa.

I'd point out as well, I don't think anyone on the thread saying Pep's accomplishments are impressive has said anything negative about Klopp or another manager. So I don't think it's about being a "fanboy".
 
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Nero said:
Have Liverpool put their together for peanuts then?

Alisson - £80m?
VVD - £75m
Salah - £35
Mane - £35m
Diaz - £40m
Keita - Wasn't he something like £40 too?
Fabinho - £40m too
Jota - Not sure, but probably £30m

There isn't much difference really.
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What on earth are you talking about, Man City's squad cost over £300 MILLION more than Liverpool's.
 
You can tittle tattle over who's spent more and who's net spend is less, etc etc etc etc....

The simple answer is, Guardiola is a world class manager that will go down as one of the game's greats. He's won the lot and will continue to do so. European cups, multiple titles in different countries.. brilliant manager.
 
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