1930s Germany has arrived in the UK

"It's beginning to look a lot like fascism"

Not quite as catchy as Christmas, like. Sorry, I realise this isn't really a joking matter but if you don't laugh, you'll cry.

Can only echo what Paintolerance said in their excellent post above. I read a good analogy yesterday about the way they are going about this is like plucking a chicken one feather at a time. Similar to the boiling frog one. All very worrying. It would be great if a hundred people turned up with big speakers to help Steve Bray, and then maybe a thousand next week.
 
Redwurzel said:
If people want to see fascism at work look at Spain 1936 -1976.

There are no safe protests, there are no free elections, people are imprisoned for their beliefs, there would be no Mick Lynch, certain books are banned. The Catholic Church dominanted many lives. There is no Equalities Act.

Extreme States tend to be established very quickly, blink and you miss it. Fear for your life keeps people in line.

The closest to me we came to me a form of fascism was probably Northern Ireland in the 1950s and 60s. The Roman Catholic/Republican were much kept in their place by the RUC that restarted to instant violence whn they felt the Catholics were getting out of their place. It was possible to legally vote 6 times if you owned 6 properties. There extreme segregation in many parts of the workforce.
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None of those happened overnight though is the point.
Yes, I agree calling the UK right now fascist is a bit hyperbolic, but that is the trajectory we are on and there are a lot of policies that echo what happened in both of those examples in the early stages of those regimes happening now.

Never think it couldn't happen here, it can happen anywhere, and once they have complete control that's when we see the consequences like in Spain, Germany ect. We have an opportunity in the next GE to stop this but if they win we could easily carry on further down that trajectory.
 
zzzzz said:
I simply assumed it was a 'love' emoji because I loved the comment. THIS :love: when you hover over it say's 'love' not laughing.

If I wanted to laugh at it I would have used the laughing emoji :ROFLMAO: But I didn't.

I find you repsonse 'repugnant in the extreme'
Actually tbh I don't. You just happen to be one of the posters whose opinions I care very little about.
:love:
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I couldnt care less whom you care about, but showing empathy and understanding isnt asking too much.
Perhaps a little thought next time?
 
Redwurzel said:
If people want to see fascism at work look at Spain 1936 -1976.

There are no safe protests, there are no free elections, people are imprisoned for their beliefs, there would be no Mick Lynch, certain books are banned. The Catholic Church dominanted many lives. There is no Equalities Act.

Extreme States tend to be established very quickly, blink and you miss it. Fear for your life keeps people in line.

The closest to me we came to me a form of fascism was probably Northern Ireland in the 1950s and 60s. The Roman Catholic/Republican were much kept in their place by the RUC that restarted to instant violence whn they felt the Catholics were getting out of their place. It was possible to legally vote 6 times if you owned 6 properties. There extreme segregation in many parts of the workforce.
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Would also point out that book banning is happening en masse in the US and attempts from our government to control what is taught in universities are also creeping in.

Fascism creeps it doesn't explode.
 
r00fie1 said:
I couldnt care less whom you care about, but showing empathy and understanding isnt asking too much.
Perhaps a little thought next time?
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No. You are completely in the wrong here. You had a right go at me without any kind of justification.
I'd ask you to apologise but it'd mean nowt anyway.
 
Redwurzel said:
If people want to see fascism at work look at Spain 1936 -1976.

There are no safe protests, there are no free elections, people are imprisoned for their beliefs, there would be no Mick Lynch, certain books are banned. The Catholic Church dominanted many lives. There is no Equalities Act.

Extreme States tend to be established very quickly, blink and you miss it. Fear for your life keeps people in line.

The closest to me we came to me a form of fascism was probably Northern Ireland in the 1950s and 60s. The Roman Catholic/Republican were much kept in their place by the RUC that restarted to instant violence whn they felt the Catholics were getting out of their place. It was possible to legally vote 6 times if you owned 6 properties. There extreme segregation in many parts of the workforce.
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Apart from the church bit, that second paragraph is exactly what this government is implementing
 
Please read the Spanish Holocaust by Paul Preston and people will understand what happened in Spain (1936-39) and it is not happening in the UK or USA. There were no decades of planning by the Nationalists/Fascists/Army and when they came into the town, they quickly rounded up opponents, put them in the back of truck and shot them a couple of miles out of town.

Some of you will be storming the White House/H of P next. :p
 
Redwurzel said:
Please read the Spanish Holocaust by Paul Preston and people will understand what happened in Spain (1936-39) and it is not happening in the UK or USA. There were no decades of planning by the Nationalists/Fascists/Army and when they came into the town, they quickly rounded up opponents, put them in the back of truck and shot them a couple of miles out of town.

Some of you will be storming the White House/H of P next. :p
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Please read waht happened in Germany I the 1930s
 
Redwurzel said:
Please read the Spanish Holocaust by Paul Preston and people will understand what happened in Spain (1936-39) and it is not happening in the UK or USA. There were no decades of planning by the Nationalists/Fascists/Army and when they came into the town, they quickly rounded up opponents, put them in the back of truck and shot them a couple of miles out of town.

Some of you will be storming the White House/H of P next. :p
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If you think there had not been decades of planning in America you are the one who needs to read more. The situation now has been slowly building since Reagan and possibly back to Nixon. Likewise here, Brexit and the far-right flagwavers pushed for that for decades and look at impact. Every notable event has many facets and threads with their roots going back often decades.

There is no one flavour of fascism it takes many forms, Spain was the same as Germany, which was not the same as Soviet Russia, which is not the same as Putin's Russia. The comparison your making does little to disprove the current state of us and American politics.

They are literally burning and banning books in America right now ... open your eyes it's happening right in front of you.
 
JonnyHistory said:
If you think there had not been decades of planning in America you are the one who needs to read more. The situation now has been slowly building since Reagan and possibly back to Nixon. Likewise here, Brexit and the far-right flagwavers pushed for that for decades and look at impact. Every notable event has many facets and threads with their roots going back often decades.

There is no one flavour of fascism it takes many forms, Spain was the same as Germany, which was not the same as Soviet Russia, which is not the same as Putin's Russia. The comparison your making does little to disprove the current state of us and American politics.

They are literally burning and banning books in America right now ... open your eyes it's happening right in front of you.
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“Where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also”​

[Heinrich Heine was a Jewish born poet who became a highly controversial figure in German literature and was also something of a visionary. He quite clearly prophesied the terrible times to come for the Jewish people in a play that he wrote in 1821.]

In “Almansor” he wrote about the burning of books for political or religious reasons and the line:

“Das war ein Vorspiel nur, dort wo man Bucher verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen” translates as “That was but a prelude; where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also”.
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medium.com

“Where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also”

December 13, 1797: Heinrich Heine is born. This German poet once observed that wherever books are burned, people are burned, too, in the…
medium.com medium.com

In the 1930s - Nazi`s burnt books.
Later they burnt people.
1656511556125.png
 
r00fie1 said:

“Where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also”​

[Heinrich Heine was a Jewish born poet who became a highly controversial figure in German literature and was also something of a visionary. He quite clearly prophesied the terrible times to come for the Jewish people in a play that he wrote in 1821.]

In “Almansor” he wrote about the burning of books for political or religious reasons and the line:


medium.com

“Where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also”

December 13, 1797: Heinrich Heine is born. This German poet once observed that wherever books are burned, people are burned, too, in the…
medium.com medium.com

In the 1930s - Nazi`s burnt books.
Later they burnt people.
View attachment 40638
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This is an article from this year on the subject of modern book burnings and bannings that mentions just this that you shared, https://www.oif.ala.org/oif/censorship-escalates-to-burning-books/ worth a read.

edit to add the last two sentences of that article is very pertinent to the debate on this thread I think.
 
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@Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret Yes, I will be voting obviously, and I am involved with my local Labour party and I teach (only occasionally these days) history and try and instill knowledge, critical thinking skills and perspective to try and ensure at least some of the next generation have the tools to see through the rhetoric and hopefully make political decisions for themselves without having to go by who their parents voted for, or who the papers decide is their favored candidate.

Change is a hard-fought battle, it takes generations and we all need to do our part to ensure we don't regress and give our civil liberties up easily.

It is obvious you are not a believer that our current state was perilous, but as many sources in the historiography show they didn't realise in Germany before it was too late, in fact, history is littered with examples of states sleepwalking into authoritarian or plastic democratic regimes, look at Russia for a modern example of that. It can happen here, we are on that path and we all should be doing things to help, no matter how small.
 
SmallTown said:
Apart from the church bit, that second paragraph is exactly what this government is implementing
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It’s not though, is it ST? We still have free elections (both parties gerrymander whenever they can), as far as I can see we are not banning or burning books (the domain of the right-wing Christians in the US), and we are not imprisoning people for their beliefs. I agree with much that has been said, but we must trade in facts, or lose credibility.
Sadly, as the late and wonderful Sir Terry observed ‘what’s in the public interest is not what the public is interested in’. We need to change that, but hyperbole is not our friend here.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
It’s not though, is it ST? We still have free elections (both parties gerrymander whenever they can), as far as I can see we are not banning or burning books (the domain of the right-wing Christians in the US), and we are not imprisoning people for their beliefs. I agree with much that has been said, but we must trade in facts, or lose credibility.
Sadly, as the late and wonderful Sir Terry observed ‘what’s in the public interest is not what the public is interested in’. We need to change that, but hyperbole is not our friend here.
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Yet! You need to be able to justify it first, that's where the culture war politics comes in, the creation of the "other" to keep the proles distracted. We may not be locking people up for their beliefs now, but we are certainly vilifying some, the partisan rhetoric is how it starts, once you have control then you see things like the above. First, it was Brexit, then it was the poor, then refugees, and now they are imposing limitations on the ability to protest. There is a pattern there and it is leading in one direction unless we stop it. Boris wants power, he will do what he can to keep it, and if that means trodding on our liberties he has shown already he is more than willing to do that. He is a dangerous person and could lead this country down a dark path unless curtailed soon.

As I and many on this thread have pointed out, fascism creeps, and the parallels to other times and eras are there to see in what is happening now. I agree it is hyperbolic to say we are in a de facto fascist state right now, but it is getting there and the tactics of this current government are in many ways lifted straight from the Nazi playbook. We should never think it couldn't happen here, it can, and it will be apathy and ignorance that will take us there.
 
SmallTown said:
Please read waht happened in Germany I the 1930s
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I have, thanks.

A quick but massive seizure of power in March 1933, effectively getting rid of any political opponents using the pretence of national security. Some were killed pretty well straight away, others put in camps, others fled the country or went underground. By June 1934 Hitler has even got rid of the Brownshirts (working class Nazis) who had helped a lot getting him into power.
 
Personally I'm a lot more concerned about polarisation than I am of us sleepwalking into a fascist regime. I think this is an example of it. I do not agree with your politics. You are a nazi.
 
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