Agree but none of that has anything to do with vaccines or pubs.
14 point Tory lead - Disastrous polling for Labour
- Thread starter Pog
- Start date
Agree but none of that has anything to do with vaccines or pubs.
Pak_Doo_Ik
Well-known member
Politics in the UK is no longer about policies but about personality and unfortunately the Labour party need to wake up to this very quickly. Would May or Cameron have such a large lead, I very much doubt it???
Boris is the bloke who used to present things on the tele, won the Olympics for London, his dad did the jungle and his sister is always on cooking or daytime TV programmes.
It's a sorry state of affairs but to break it Labour need to find themselves a Boris (maybe Andy Preston is that man) and just fight on the personality front for the next couple of years.
This is possibly the sleaziest government the country has ever had, their management of Covid has been shambolic, and Brexit hasn't really started to bite, yet they continue to gain support.
Boris is the bloke who used to present things on the tele, won the Olympics for London, his dad did the jungle and his sister is always on cooking or daytime TV programmes.
It's a sorry state of affairs but to break it Labour need to find themselves a Boris (maybe Andy Preston is that man) and just fight on the personality front for the next couple of years.
This is possibly the sleaziest government the country has ever had, their management of Covid has been shambolic, and Brexit hasn't really started to bite, yet they continue to gain support.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
No matter what I say you'll disagree with. Pointless debate. Try Google.
I would expect if elected tomorrow that NHS nurses would receive an immediate pay rise and an end to the privatisation of the pandemic response.
Beyond that I would also expect Labour to focus more broadly on the NHS and infrastructure. I don't expect a manifesto with the nationalisation pledges of Corbyn. A lot can change in 3 years though.
Ah yeah I forgot that one. 1% bad, 2.1% good is the Starmer policy isn't it?
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
It was then that he revealed his hitherto hidden huge donation from a Zionist, and that was when I left the party.
Archiestephens_elbow
Well-known member
Blair won the Olympics but defefel took the credit
Pog
Well-known member
As expected, you can’t answer the question.
It’s not a debate, it’s a simple question. The only one you’ve come up with is one that’s a Tory policy, just slightly less s***.
The fact he’s been in charge for 12 months and one of his biggest supporters can’t answer that simple question speaks volumes.
Total failure of leadership.
Centralscrutinizer
Well-known member
It's even more baffling to me if BloJo is doing well because of his personality. I don't think I'm any more astute than the average person but it seems glaringly obvious that he's a lieing, incompetent fantasist.
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Pog
Well-known member
Wiseman_Vaughn
Well-known member
This makes sense to me:
"The crusade around identity politics and its encouragement of separation, contradicts the unity required for the Labour Party to be an effective political force able to bring about meaningful change.
Identity politics and its obsession with our differences, instead of bringing people closer together, creates barriers, whether between party members or in society in general.
Identity politics is entirely antithetical to class solidarity and reduces class to just another identity, considering it only in its intersection with race, gender and sexuality. Identitarians fail to understand class is different, that class is a social relation which can unite people regardless of their differences, biological or otherwise."
Labour
"The crusade around identity politics and its encouragement of separation, contradicts the unity required for the Labour Party to be an effective political force able to bring about meaningful change.
Identity politics and its obsession with our differences, instead of bringing people closer together, creates barriers, whether between party members or in society in general.
Identity politics is entirely antithetical to class solidarity and reduces class to just another identity, considering it only in its intersection with race, gender and sexuality. Identitarians fail to understand class is different, that class is a social relation which can unite people regardless of their differences, biological or otherwise."
Labour
HundredRoom
Well-known member
Labours problem was and still is Jeremy Corbyn. The faces on Andy Burnham et al when the leadership vote was announced was a pretty picture.
Together with the cheering far left is hard to eradicate from peoples memories.
Give it another 10 years - maybe 20 when JC and his lot are swept from peoples memories
make it 25 or 30
Together with the cheering far left is hard to eradicate from peoples memories.
Give it another 10 years - maybe 20 when JC and his lot are swept from peoples memories
make it 25 or 30
Pog
Well-known member
Andy_W
Well-known member
Have you just ignored Feb 20 to Jan 21?@Andy_ none so blind...
You've posted a graph exactly proving my point about when Labour's polling started falling off.
Nows not a good time to attack cause people are going to the pubsand yet the excuse last year was its bad to attack whiles there's a crisis.
If you're someone who thinks there's never a good time to criticise tory governments, maybe you shouldn't be leader of the Labour party IMHO.
The only reason they had slid to a -13 gap is because they got back to level from a -20 gap! They had to improve to get that loss! It is still a massive net gain over the timeframe.
Like I said, since January we've had the best news/ recovery out of pretty much the entirety of the G7, yet you're ignoring this and pinning blame on Starmer. It's people like you who are the main reason why Labour always lose, they get beat by themselves and don't concentrate on the enemy.
If a country is in crisis then there is no need to attack, just let the Tories beat themselves. Now the tories have the best "positive" news they're going to get whilst Starmer is there, this is going to be the peak of their "best", maybe a touch more in summer with the summer buzz people will have. But wait till winter, it will drop again. The vaccine is massive news, it's got 10x more attention than every other story put together, this is all most people care about. Secondly more people care about pubs opening than policies, it's not right, but it is how a lot of people think and they won't change (much). You have to think who this middle lot who get swung are, they're susceptible people, easily led and easily swayed, they're not hard core Tories and they're not 100% labour voters. They're in the middle, they don't take much to shift and this is the same type that DC went after with brexit, and it's how brexit was won. You have to know who to target, which is exactly what Corbyn didn't.
Once the vaccination is forgotten about, furlough stops, the stamp duty comes back, house prices drop, the high streets sinks further and brexit keeps taking punches, this will sink the tories, and more so in the groups which can be swayed.
It's best to appear "supportive" to the government when they're "winning", or definitely not go after them all guns blazing, as those on that side will think Starmer isn't just slinging mud for the sake of it. By holding off, it means when he does start slinging mud after summer, then more of it will stick, as it will have more value. Timing is extremely important, and if you think now is a time when labour could make any sort of gains then you've got a screw loose.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
It is a debate but not with someone who would never accept an answer that conflicts with an entrenched view of someone.
I'm not Keir Starmer's biggest supporter by any stretch, but he is the current elected leader of the Labour party and 12 months during a pandemic is not a fair amount of time to judge a leader. For me, that's a general election.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
Ah well if it’s the Boris cult for the next 10, 15, 20 plus years then so be it.
Labour whether it’s Milliband, Corbyn or Starmer can only do so much but if the working class think they are now Conservative voters and that is the best option for them then they can look forward to the post Brexit sunlit uplands for the foreseeable.
I‘m a Labour voter and that will continue but if Johnson and the Tories have won the argument then they have won the argument.
Lets just get on with our lives and stop worrying about opinion polls.
Labour whether it’s Milliband, Corbyn or Starmer can only do so much but if the working class think they are now Conservative voters and that is the best option for them then they can look forward to the post Brexit sunlit uplands for the foreseeable.
I‘m a Labour voter and that will continue but if Johnson and the Tories have won the argument then they have won the argument.
Lets just get on with our lives and stop worrying about opinion polls.
Pak_Doo_Ik
Well-known member
The trouble is (and mean this in the nicest possible way) what you think doesn't matter.
The fact that you can see through him doesn't change anything because for every one of us that can see him for what he is, there are 5 that don't, and see him as this bumbling fool who waves flags and makes himself look foolish but unfortunately that appeals to people. What Labour and other opposition parties need to do is find out why people think this way and then tap it to it (easier said than done).
Does KS have any family members that could do Strictly or Love Island???
Pog
Well-known member
If I was asked to define Corbyn and what his core beliefs were, it would be incredibly simple before he even became leader - Nationalisation of rail and water, increase taxes on the rich and corporations, end to foreign wars, abolish trident, end PFI, creation of National Education Service.
Whether people liked him or not, they couldn’t argue that those were his beliefs and many became policy.
You don’t want to answer on Starmer because you simply can’t, and many of his leadership pledges he’s already broken.
Said this on umpteen threads now but the 2017 election is the only one that Labour have gained seats at since 1997. Labour not following that manifesto/election as their guiding principle is the equivalent to Tony Pulis sticking Gestede up front in the playoff games after months of seeing that Bamford was the player that made it work. The likes of Burnham are the problem. The red wall seats weren't lost overnight.