14 point Tory lead - Disastrous polling for Labour

BlindBoyGrunt said:
He didn't fail, he was failed. Failed by MP's whose membership card said Democratic Socialist but were anything but.
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He was beaten in 2 elections. His party working against him had nothing to do with it. The doorsteps said time and again "not him". They believed the press smear campaign, it's how the media works.

Meanwhile here we are in a circular argument, signally failing to have moved on.
 
HarryVegas said:
He was beaten in 2 elections. His party working against him had nothing to do with it.
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They didn't put all that effort in for nothing, of course it had something to do with it.
HarryVegas said:
The doorsteps said time and again "not him". They believed the press smear campaign, it's how the media works.
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So the lies and smears against the best chance we had in a generation of a socialist government worked. Yes he was beaten in two elections but have you ever seen such a campaign against a party leader in your time? Probably not, but when you state that he lost two elections you offer no mitigating circumstances, which I find strange.
 
You can find it as strange as you want. I voted for him as party leader twice and also obviously voted for him in both General Elections and urged anyone I came into contact with to do the same. I've been a party member for a long time now, with a break for some years after the Iraq war, which I left in protest against. I re-joined when Ed Miliband went for leadership and voted for him - shows you something about my political judgement!

The UK is a deeply conservative country and will never elect a true socialist - and certainly not while the media works the way it does. Yes, it's deeply wrong but neither you nor I can change it. This being the case I'd just rather have a government in power who at least come some distance towards helping those who struggle and who have a belief in keeping/boosting the NHS, rather than filling the pockets of themselves and their mates, which is the situation we've had for the last 11 years now and what we're stuck with until we have a leader who can reach out to those not naturally on or of the left.
 
HarryVegas said:
The UK is a deeply conservative country and will never elect a true socialist - and certainly not while the media works the way it does. Yes, it's deeply wrong but neither you nor I can change it.
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We can change it though, by not accepting neoliberalism from either major party. It's a long game though. However, you convince me that that forty odd frontbenchers staging a choreographed mass resignation didn't do anything to influence people's opinions on the doorstep regarding Corbyn's electability. It wasn't just the media, but those resignations fuelled the media.
 
HarryVegas said:
He was beaten in 2 elections. His party working against him had nothing to do with it. The doorsteps said time and again "not him". They believed the press smear campaign, it's how the media works..
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The press smear campaign that was fed by Labour MPs and officials.

It's ludicrous to suggest that the public independently determined that "Jezza was a wrong'un".

Labour MPs coming out and supporting the leadership would have made a massive difference.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
We can change it though, by not accepting neoliberalism from either major party. It's a long game though. However, you convince me that that forty odd frontbenchers staging a choreographed mass resignation didn't do anything to influence people's opinions on the doorstep regarding Corbyn's electability. It wasn't just the media, but those resignations fuelled the media.
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Corbyn nearly won in 2017, he came very close.

Don’t you think it was the wrong policy on Brexit which cost Labour in 2019?

The Tories were just as divided as Labour 2017 to 2019, they were a shambles, I’m not sure it matters as much as you are saying at elections.
 
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