YouGov Poll - 33 Point lead!

Chris_Boro

Well-known member
We’re going round in circles and as I said before there was 50 out of 51 Scotland seats that Milliband lost if they aren’t key seats I don’t know what are 🤷🏻‍♂️

And Starmer is going to have to win an election without them unless he can prove that a London Sir who is a lawyer is what Scotland needs 🤔

Corbyn could never win an election without those Scotland seats

because between the 1997 Labour landslide and Brown Labour was haemorrhaging votes and I said they lost 4.9 million votes so the idea all Labours problems stem from Corbyn just doesn’t add up

Chris do you think Starmer can win a general election without Scotland? because it would need to look like Blair’s 2005 general election result if he can’t rely on Scotland

That means he needs to increase the vote as you say outside of the metropolitan areas (which Starmer isn’t doing) and the blue wall has so far gone to the Liberal Democrat’s since Starmer has been in charge

Yes Labour can win without Scotland, polling shows this, but I also know you're desperate to ignore polling because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Also, no we are not going round in circles, you have an opinion and tried to use numbers without context to prove it correct.

There's literally a blue wall poll which shows Labour leading in those area's.
 

Chris_Boro

Well-known member
2017s the only election this century that Labour have gained seats in. So no this analysis is off. It wasn't the case that the party were just piling up votes in seats already won.

No it isn’t, Labour didn't win enough of the significant key swing seats to win the election and gained larger vote share in seats they already had.

I never said they didn't gain seats, they obviously did, just not enough where it counted the most under FPTP. I pointed out that Corbyn was a positive and unfortunately a negative too in these areas.

My main point was that posting total votes doesn't prove anything that exiled was trying to say. I could just as easily show the Tory 2017 numbers and say May was popular.
 
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BoroFur

Well-known member
Angry old BoroFur at it again. Muttley will be straight on your back for that juvenile name calling!
By the sounds of it I'm younger than you.
The 1970's just left you a message, they asked if they could have their socialist policies back.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
I've read all the recent stuff where people are arguing - I don't even know what the actual arguments are over. Scotland seats... Corbyn getting lots of votes but losing elections... Not sure what any of that has to do with Labours current big polling lead.

Sad that this thread has yet again turned into people, who we know don't like Starmer, telling people they don't like Starmer.

Why are we reliving 2017 and how Corbyn lost the election? The party has moved on and now it looks like it is electable. I get some people now feel excluded from the party. That's fair enough, I get why you feel that way - I am sure many do. And some people would have felt the same exclusion when Corbyn was leader, I did.

Anyway. Continue continue (y)
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
This is labours seats won as I said when you start to look at results after 2015 they don’t include the 50 Scotland seats the centeriats lost

And like I said without those 50 seats Starmer needs something like the 2005 peak Blair result because it’s already a going to be 50 seats down. Blair minus 50 seats would only have won 2 general elections

Chris I have no agenda but it’s not going to happen
 

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exiledinboro

Well-known member
Shows how poor Corbyn was in 2019. Not much to write home about in 2017 either, struggled to beat Brown and that was after years in power.

Just cut the crap and call me a Tory but maybe you and Laughing might let us into the little secret why you want people like me who live in Labour seats should carry on voting but you and quite a few others on here have moved away to TORY seats?

🤷🏻‍♂️
 

BoroFur

Well-known member
Just cut the crap and call me a Tory but maybe you and Laughing might let us into the little secret why you want people like me who live in Labour seats should carry on voting but you and quite a few others on here have moved away to TORY seats?
I've got news for you mate. No-one, and I mean absolutely no-one, moves home based on who the sitting MP is.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
I've got news for you mate. No-one, and I mean absolutely no-one, moves home based on who the sitting MP is.

I didn’t say that.

My point was calling people Tories whilst showing zero knowledge of Labour and taking your personal freedom to actually choose a Tory seat to live is a little bit hypocritical and cultist 🤷🏻‍♂️

* and I’m not so arrogant BoroFur that I would be telling people what to vote and then run off if I don’t like the replies 🤦‍♂️
 
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MolteniArcore

Well-known member
Just cut the crap and call me a Tory but maybe you and Laughing might let us into the little secret why you want people like me who live in Labour seats should carry on voting but you and quite a few others on here have moved away to TORY seats?

🤷🏻‍♂️

I was commenting on a graph you posted and certainly didn't imply that you were a Tory because of it.

I'm not sure why these threads descend the way they do but I have a hunch it is because you despise Starmer and are like a dog with a bone. You can't let it go that others like the bloke and end up posting all sorts of strange stuff whilst you go deeper into the rabbit hole of Starmerhate.

All the Labour threads get derailed like this - like I said earlier, I'm not even sure what your point is now, do you? Now it seems to be you can't have an opinion or know about Labour because you don't live in a 'Labour area'. WTF?

So, to clarify:

I live in a Conservative constituency, yes. I was born here, I have moved away for work and life, and I have now moved back. I did not move back because it was a Tory constituency - I moved back to care for my elderly mother who needs a lot of support. Is that ok? Or to continue this conversation would I have to move back to York Central?

"taking your personal freedom to actually choose a Tory seat to live is a little bit hypocritical and cultist 🤷🏻‍♂️"

If it means my mum won't have to lie on the floor for hours waiting for an ambulance to arrive I'd rather be a hypocrite (in your eyes) anyway. What utter twoddle that choosing to live somewhere makes you hypocritical and cultist - you have no idea why people live where they do. How utterly arrogant of you.


And I couldn't care less if you vote or not - that is obviously your choice. Sounds like you won't be voting for Labour anyway so you will effectively be enabling the Conservatives. Maybe you not voting might be for the best?

And you call people who like Starmer the cultists? Wow.
 

ForssAwakens

Well-known member
I was commenting on a graph you posted and certainly didn't imply that you were a Tory because of it.

I'm not sure why these threads descend the way they do but I have a hunch it is because you despise Starmer and are like a dog with a bone. You can't let it go that others like the bloke and end up posting all sorts of strange stuff whilst you go deeper into the rabbit hole of Starmerhate.

All the Labour threads get derailed like this - like I said earlier, I'm not even sure what your point is now, do you? Now it seems to be you can't have an opinion or know about Labour because you don't live in a 'Labour area'. WTF?

So, to clarify:

I live in a Conservative constituency, yes. I was born here, I have moved away for work and life, and I have now moved back. I did not move back because it was a Tory constituency - I moved back to care for my elderly mother who needs a lot of support. Is that ok? Or to continue this conversation would I have to move back to York Central?

"taking your personal freedom to actually choose a Tory seat to live is a little bit hypocritical and cultist 🤷🏻‍♂️"

If it means my mum won't have to lie on the floor for hours waiting for an ambulance to arrive I'd rather be a hypocrite (in your eyes) anyway. What utter twoddle that choosing to live somewhere makes you hypocritical and cultist - you have no idea why people live where they do. How utterly arrogant of you.


And I couldn't care less if you vote or not - that is obviously your choice. Sounds like you won't be voting for Labour anyway so you will effectively be enabling the Conservatives. Maybe you not voting might be for the best?

And you call people who like Starmer the cultists? Wow.
When I do mortgages for people the first question I ask them is why did you move and they always say because it’s a Labour seat. No one ever mentions it’s close to work or we wanted a back garden. 👀
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
oh the irony in losing your way in an argument by posting pithy sarcastic comments, only to follow it with Partridge losing a debate with the head of BBC and acting all sarcastic and not bothered because he was out of his depth and had nothing intellectual to add to the discussion. I couldn't have put it better myself
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
You say that Brown lost because we were due a change. Well if that was the case for Cameron, it is certainly the case for Starmer.
As for Corbyn's two losses, let's not forget that The party itself was instrumental in actually throwing those two elections.
It was one of the contributing factors. Labour had been in power for three terms, and I think the Tories have held control for over 70% of the last 100 years (I've not looked this up). So yes, the longer Labour held, the more likely they were to lose, it doesn't work like probability where each action is independent of the last, pressure builds over time.
Some people always assume change is better, when it's often not. Same thing happened with Brexit. Loads thought the EU was crap, or not ideal (and it wasn't ideal, nobody said it was), but no way in hell did it mean that leaving would be better for us, but the tugging on heartstrings of immigration tipped the balance for a lot of the easily led, like it did the press blaming recession on Labour.

Tories had only been in power for what 7 years, by the time of Corbyn's first election and 9 for the second? This is a fairly short stint for the Tories (less than preceding Labour), but they had been absolutely stinking the place out since the Brexit **** up, and with May and BJ.

I don't buy the "throwing two elections". At worst, I see that more as the Labour MP's quickly realised that the Tory press and public just did not see Corbyn as a leader, and they saw that quicker than Corbyn did. But, if Corbyn had actually got the MP's and the public on side (which is his job), then he would have had more support.
 

Nano

Well-known member
I was very much a Corbyn fan. But, I genuinely believe if he was still leader, Labour would be no where near 20% ahead, and that the Tories would still be very confident of winning the next election.

Just my own opinion of course.
This is probably true but it had nothing to do with his policies. It was his personality/history etc that was unelectable for a large portion of the country. His policies/manifestos were very well received. Leftist policies are being rejected now because Corbyn the person wasn't popular and nor was Labour's ability to commit to Brexit.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
@MolteniArcore you clearly have nothing to add once again and don’t like it when people use this statistics unless they say how wonderful Starmer is 🤷🏻‍♂️ And I don’t hate him but there is more to a general election win beyond sampling 2000 people 🤦‍♂️

Why don’t you join your other buddies on that Brexit thread 🤔
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
oh the irony in losing your way in an argument by posting pithy sarcastic comments, only to follow it with Partridge losing a debate with the head of BBC and acting all sarcastic and not bothered because he was out of his depth and had nothing intellectual to add to the discussion. I couldn't have put it better myself

Jeez Louise. I'm sorry you got it wrong about the timing of surestart. Get over it for goodness sake. It's been insult after insult every message since.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
Andy, Blair won a landslide by uniting the left and right and basically arguing he will shift the party to the centre and there would a trickle down where everyone would feel a difference. And I actually think they did

But there’s numerous data and studies that shows people in the North, Scotland, Wales and the midlands started drifting away as they saw the party no longer represented them.

The cost was Labour haemorrhaged nearly 5 million votes who became stay at home voters or moved to other parties. Course they gained new voters as well as loosing them

This is not some cycle, Andy that parties go through it’s change happening that can be explained and it goes right to the heart of why brexit happened with 60% of Labour constituencies being leave

Course more Labour voters voted remain but it might explain why Starmer is now arguing for workers to be paid more and really work towards the seats outside the metropolitan areas

The landscape is changing quite rapidly right now
 

Paintolerance

Well-known member
This is probably true but it had nothing to do with his policies. It was his personality/history etc that was unelectable for a large portion of the country. His policies/manifestos were very well received. Leftist policies are being rejected now because Corbyn the person wasn't popular and nor was Labour's ability to commit to Brexit.
I 100% agree.

However, I also think that many of said policies would, under another leader, be framed as Marxist etc by the media and that mud would stick , even though 99% of this country wouldn't know Marx if he sat next to them Greggs. He is the bogey man!

It's difficult to stick stuff on Starmer as he is very much a centrist.

He is by no means my ideal choice but, right now, he is the only viable choice this country has to escape the downward spiral, which is why the demonisation of him by some on the left is so utterly depressing.
 
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