YouGov Poll - 33 Point lead!

Chris_Boro

Well-known member
Sure start was basically public child care which allowed parents to work and have a break and I think the Tories have said it was a mistake to get rid of it (bloody Cameron)

Just going back and I’ve posted this before

2019 - 10’269.051 Corbyn
20017 - 12’877.918 Corbyn
2015. - 9’347.273 Milliband
2010 - 8’609.527 Brown
2005 - 9’552.436 Blair

The idea there is an appetite for a center Labour Party isn’t backed up by the voting numbers. Just go answer one of your points Andy I think Starmer will get a low turn out and the recent by elections have shown no gains in the red wall and middle England BUT they’ve raised their vote in metropolitan areas like London that they don’t need 🤷🏻‍♂️

Absolutely pointless to post numbers without context. Labour could've got 20 million votes, which matters not if the Tories get 25 million.

In 2017 Corbyn managed to successfully engage a number of previously disengaged demographics (youth/women) which almost got him over the line against an awful May campaign. His issue was that he also engaged the other end of the spectrum against him which carried it for the Tories.

Posting total votes is also a poor metric as Labour increased vote share in already heavy Labour constituencies but was split in key swing seats (red wall).

Your analysis that the appetite for a center Labour Party isn’t their is flawed based purely on the numbers you posted, arguably, if Corbyn was more inclusive to the center, he may have won the election. This obviously is impossible to prove without an exact rerun of that election, just like your theory of a lack of support for a Labour center.
 

BoroFur

Well-known member
The country needs a transformative and capable leader, and if you think that this swing to Labour is because of anything Starmer is doing, think again. We have endured years of the most useless, dishonest, corrupt series of governments in UK history.
Ha ha, was waiting for you to chirp up with your anti-Starmer/anti-Labour clap-trap. You and SuperStu are like a lightweight, amateur wrestling tag team.
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
The country needs a transformative and capable leader, and if you think that this swing to Labour is because of anything Starmer is doing, think again. We have endured years of the most useless, dishonest, corrupt series of governments in UK history.
Don’t disagree but he has passed the first test by looking sensible.

I think you should also recognise the Tories have stayed in power by offering things a lot of voters wanted. You can’t just dismiss them because you don’t like them, you have to learn.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
Absolutely pointless to post numbers without context. Labour could've got 20 million votes, which matters not if the Tories get 25 million.

In 2017 Corbyn managed to successfully engage a number of previously disengaged demographics (youth/women) which almost got him over the line against an awful May campaign. His issue was that he also engaged the other end of the spectrum against him which carried it for the Tories.

Posting total votes is also a poor metric as Labour increased vote share in already heavy Labour constituencies but was split in key swing seats (red wall).

Your analysis that the appetite for a center Labour Party isn’t their is flawed based purely on the numbers you posted, arguably, if Corbyn was more inclusive to the center, he may have won the election. This obviously is impossible to prove without an exact rerun of that election, just like your theory of a lack of support for a Labour center.

Chris, it was a really simple point I made in response to a claim that people were afraid to vote Corbyn

I’ve even (courtesy of BoroFur) listed what percentage of the vote Corbyn got. And for the countless time if the right wing had supported him we probably would have had a labour government

But again people were not afraid of Corbyn AND he had to contend with no Scotland that the centerists lost in 2015 courtesy of Milliband

2019 - 10’269.051 Corbyn 32%
20017 - 12’877.918 Corbyn 40%
2015. - 9’347.273 Milliband 30.4%
2010 - 8’609.527 Brown 29%
2005 - 9’552.436 Blair 35.2%

Btw Chris is it only you’re own statistics you like because you seem to have a problem with other people posting numbers. That was a joke btw ✌️
 

Paintolerance

Well-known member
No but who wouldn't have a 20% lead after what we have had to live through and witness from the Tories these last few years. The incompetence, corruption and dishonesty of the Johnson/Truss/Sunak era are utterly unprecedented.
I was very much a Corbyn fan. But, I genuinely believe if he was still leader, Labour would be no where near 20% ahead, and that the Tories would still be very confident of winning the next election.

Just my own opinion of course.
 

Chris_Boro

Well-known member
Chris, it was a really simple point I made in response to a claim that people were afraid to vote Corbyn

I’ve even (courtesy of BoroFur) listed what percentage of the vote Corbyn got. And for the countless time if the right wing had supported him we probably would have had a labour government

But again people were not afraid of Corbyn AND he had to contend with no Scotland that the centerists lost in 2015 courtesy of Milliband

2019 - 10’269.051 Corbyn 32%
20017 - 12’877.918 Corbyn 40%
2015. - 9’347.273 Milliband 30.4%
2010 - 8’609.527 Brown 29%
2005 - 9’552.436 Blair 35.2%

Btw Chris is it only you’re own statistics you like because you seem to have a problem with other people posting numbers. That was a joke btw ✌️

I know what you were trying to prove, I was pointing out the pointlessness of using numbers without context.

All Labour votes were not for Corbyn, Milliband, Brown or Blair, likewise Tory Votes for Cameron, May and Johnson.

Labour in 2017 under Corbyn lost significant swing seats as people were put off voting for Corbyn, who gained a significant increase in votes from already strong Labour constituencies which is redundant under FPTP.

To win an election you need to convince swing voters in key minority seats to vote for you or put enough people off from voting for the opposition. Something Corbyn failed to achieve significantly enough.

Gaining 20% more votes in seats you already have is useless, nor does it prove that general Labour voter intention was anti-centrist.
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
I know what you were trying to prove, I was pointing out the pointlessness of using numbers without context.

All Labour votes were not for Corbyn, Milliband, Brown or Blair, likewise Tory Votes for Cameron, May and Johnson.

Labour in 2017 under Corbyn lost significant swing seats as people were put off voting for Corbyn, who gained a significant increase in votes from already strong Labour constituencies which is redundant under FPTP.

To win an election you need to convince swing voters in key minority seats to vote for you or put enough people off from voting for the opposition. Something Corbyn failed to achieve significantly enough.

Gaining 20% more votes in seats you already have is useless, nor does it prove that general Labour voter intention was anti-centrist.

We’re going round in circles and as I said before there was 50 out of 51 Scotland seats that Milliband lost if they aren’t key seats I don’t know what are 🤷🏻‍♂️

And Starmer is going to have to win an election without them unless he can prove that a London Sir who is a lawyer is what Scotland needs 🤔

Corbyn could never win an election without those Scotland seats

because between the 1997 Labour landslide and Brown Labour was haemorrhaging votes and I said they lost 4.9 million votes so the idea all Labours problems stem from Corbyn just doesn’t add up

Chris do you think Starmer can win a general election without Scotland? because it would need to look like Blair’s 2005 general election result if he can’t rely on Scotland

That means he needs to increase the vote as you say outside of the metropolitan areas (which Starmer isn’t doing) and the blue wall has so far gone to the Liberal Democrat’s since Starmer has been in charge
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
We’re going round in circles and as I said before there was 50 out of 51 Scotland seats that Milliband lost if they aren’t key seats I don’t know what are 🤷🏻‍♂️

And Starmer is going to have to win an election without them unless he can prove that a London Sir who is a lawyer is what Scotland needs 🤔

Corbyn could never win an election without those Scotland seats

because between the 1997 Labour landslide and Brown Labour was haemorrhaging votes and I said they lost 4.9 million votes so the idea all Labours problems stem from Corbyn just doesn’t add up

Chris do you think Starmer can win a general election without Scotland? because it would need to look like Blair’s 2005 general election result if he can’t rely on Scotland

That means he needs to increase the vote as you say outside of the metropolitan areas (which Starmer isn’t doing) and the blue wall has so far gone to the Liberal Democrat’s since Starmer has been in charge
And your point is?
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Gosh he's wonderful isn't he. What a man. Whatever he says now is the best possible thing to say now to get elected. Once he's elected whatever you imagine the best thing to do is, that's what he'll be doing. Even if it's the opposite of what he says now, that just won't matter then. What a fantastic, delightful leader. Don't call it a cult though. (y) Fair enough chaps, you've won me over. I'm in.
no one is trying to win you over, just have a sensible discussion on it, the tone of your post makes it appear that you aren't capable of that. Fair enough chap
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
no one is trying to win you over, just have a sensible discussion on it, the tone of your post makes it appear that you aren't capable of that. Fair enough chap

Mart I've been dipping in and out of this thread all day and sent plenty of sensible replies.
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
Ha ha, was waiting for you to chirp up with your anti-Starmer/anti-Labour clap-trap. You and SuperStu are like a lightweight, amateur wrestling tag team.

Angry old BoroFur at it again. Muttley will be straight on your back for that juvenile name calling!
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
Labour in 2017 under Corbyn lost significant swing seats as people were put off voting for Corbyn, who gained a significant increase in votes from already strong Labour constituencies which is redundant under FPTP.

To win an election you need to convince swing voters in key minority seats to vote for you or put enough people off from voting for the opposition. Something Corbyn failed to achieve significantly enough.

Gaining 20% more votes in seats you already have is useless, nor does it prove that general Labour voter intention was anti-centrist.

2017s the only election this century that Labour have gained seats in. So no this analysis is off. It wasn't the case that the party were just piling up votes in seats already won.
 
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