Will the ban on the sale of petrol/diesel cars happen in 7 years?

[SmallTown]

'I drove an electric car 350 miles in a day and the numbers just didn't add up'

There's been a lot of debate about electric cars lately - so we hit the road for a real-world experiment

www.walesonline.co.uk

Yet another hatchet job. I'm assume he didn't precondition the car to begin with? Using a granny charger and expecting fast charging? And I simply don't believe the Tuantan dean stop at all. He's definitely lying about the speed. the Charger is a 50KWh and not 60 as he says, I don't think I've ever seen a 60KWh.

And, this shouldn't need saying but sadly it does, that's not how you use your car. Unless someone DOES travel from Cornwall to Bristol every day. But I doubt this.

 

[SmallTown]

Drivetrain simplicity is a bonus, but let's not forget that other things on electric cars can and will still develop faults.

Yes: Brakes, Nav systems, steering, electronics. All of these can develop faults.

Same as an ICE car.

This is the oddest argument I hear (and I hear A LOT of odd anti EV arguments)
People talk about running out of fuel, having to run heaters when stuck in traffic, faults that can develop, cost of fuel... Seemingly oblivious to the fact that these are problems VEHICLES face. And not electric vehicles.

Maybe I'm being too harsh: Other than the drivetrain, can you let me know what can go wrong on an EV that can't go wrong on an ICE?

 

[RedAsABeetroot]

Yet another hatchet job. I'm assume he didn't precondition the car to begin with? Using a granny charger and expecting fast charging? And I simply don't believe the Tuantan dean stop at all. He's definitely lying about the speed. the Charger is a 50KWh and not 60 as he says, I don't think I've ever seen a 60KWh.

And, this shouldn't need saying but sadly it does, that's not how you use your car. Unless someone DOES travel from Cornwall to Bristol every day. But I doubt this.

I posted this for information about the cost of charging not the range anxiety.
It's all very well those provided with EVs as company cars by their employers who can plug them in at work and charge them for free telling the rest of us they're the best thing since sliced bread.
I recently investigated getting an EV and the leasing costs were eye watering and a non starter for me. I worry that as more people adopt EVs we'll have another group of companies making excessive profits and it will be those running these charging networks.

 

[SmallTown]

I posted this for information about the cost of charging not the range anxiety.
It's all very well those provided with EVs as company cars by their employers who can plug them in at work and charge them for free telling the rest of us they're the best thing since sliced bread.
I recently investigated getting an EV and the leasing costs were eye watering and a non starter for me. I worry that as more people adopt EVs we'll have another group of companies making excessive profits and it will be those running these charging networks.

Yeah but my point about regular use still stands. Most people don't use fast chargers. So costs aren't that relevant.

 

[Nano]

I have an EV and I only use the fast chargers when I do long journeys which is probably once a month on average. For the 95% of my journeys where I'm charging at home then the cost is significantly less than if I was using a petrol or diesel car but yes, you take the hit on the one journey a month to charge publicly.

I also don't believe he needed 5 different charge stops to do a 350m journey (home, stop, friends, 2 stops). I have a car that is not the same but has the same quoted range and I get 200-220 miles. 180 would be 66% of the cars quoted range which wouldn't be acceptable. Even at 180 miles he should have been able to travel the 175 to Bristol where he could have charged it while leaving it for the day or put 80%ish in at a fast charger and then a quick stop on the way home to top up if needed.

I did almost the exact same journey last year in my car. I live 180m from Bristol and I went and stayed with friends and got all the way to Bristol on one charge with about 25% remaining, charged as above to 80% at a charger near Temple Meads and then stopped for 10 mins on the way back to get enough to get me home.

 

[MolteniArcore]

'I drove an electric car 350 miles in a day and the numbers just didn't add up'

There's been a lot of debate about electric cars lately - so we hit the road for a real-world experiment

www.walesonline.co.uk

I am not an EV advocate at all but that is a poor article. SURELY if you were making that journey once a month or whatever he said you would buy a car taking that into account? The Volvo comes in at £57,000 for that version according to Piston Heads (https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2021-volvo-c40-recharge-twin-pro--ph-review/44814).

If I was buying an EV and knew I was making long trips I wouldn't choose a 408hp massive Volvo. I'd be going for something like an Skoda Enyak (331 miles £42k), Hyundai Iqoniq 6 (379 miles £46k) or Tesla Model 3 (374 miles £49k).

The guy is trying to drive 350 miles so yes, he would have to stop and charge at one point using the cars I mentioned, but he wouldn't be needing to charge at his destination using the 3 pin plug. He'd probably need to stop once for breakfast at the services, and if he chose the Tesla the superchargers would have him back full in no time.

That article is like someone moaning about the speed he travelled from Leeds to London when driving a JCB Fastrac cos it was loaned to him for a week. Utter drivel.

 

[SmallTown]

I am not an EV advocate at all but that is a poor article. SURELY if you were making that journey once a month or whatever he said you would buy a car taking that into account? The Volvo comes in at £57,000 for that version according to Piston Heads (https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2021-volvo-c40-recharge-twin-pro--ph-review/44814).

If I was buying an EV and knew I was making long trips I wouldn't choose a 408hp massive Volvo. I'd be going for something like an Skoda Enyak (331 miles £42k), Hyundai Iqoniq 6 (379 miles £46k) or Tesla Model 3 (374 miles £49k).

The guy is trying to drive 350 miles so yes, he would have to stop and charge at one point using the cars I mentioned, but he wouldn't be needing to charge at his destination using the 3 pin plug. He'd probably need to stop once for breakfast at the services, and if he chose the Tesla the superchargers would have him back full in no time.

That article is like someone moaning about the speed he travelled from Leeds to London when driving a JCB Fastrac cos it was loaned to him for a week. Utter drivel.

It's not alone. I still laugh at one of these discussions were someone posted a link to a "detailed" study into running costs of an EV which subtracted average salary from charging time to add to the costs. I think even the least knowledgable person must know that people don't just stand next to their car when charging their EV.

It's why I tend to contribute to these threads. There is so much misinformation and lies spread about EV I like to try and counteract it with personal experience and facts.

In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an article in which the EV use wasn't deliberately calculated to be in favour of the ICE vehicle. I'd love to see an article with the most normal situation: Car has off street parking and a charger can be installed and the journeys it is used for are 8.4 miles long. (This isn't stacking things in favour of the EV: it's based on averages. 75.3% of the country have access to off street parking and the average journey in the UK is 8.4 miles)

I don't know the figures but I'd be willing to bet good money the EV would be cheaper to run (and more convenient, imagine never having to visit a petrol station, and always climbing in a cabin at the right temperature) than an ICE

 

[Laughing]

If you are ever in Amsterdam it's worth asking the cab drivers what they think. The vast majority use the tesla model s.

I know 2 folks that have owned an s. They didn't like them. Make of that what you will.

 

[SmallTown]

If you are ever in Amsterdam it's worth asking the cab drivers what they think. The vast majority use the tesla model s.

I know 2 folks that have owned an s. They didn't like them. Make of that what you will.

I guess this is some of the misinformation that EV companies get saddled with. Albiet very subtle: EV=Tesla and Tesla=EV which of course is an absulote lie.

Ask me the same and I'll speak like the taxi drivers of Amsterdam: Would I recommend a Tesla? No, would I recommend an EV? Yes.

Also we talk of how fast EV are developing. So using one of the every first of the modern breed, an 11 year old vehicle, as an example is a bit much.

 

[Laughing]

I guess this is some of the misinformation that EV companies get saddled with. Albiet very subtle: EV=Tesla and Tesla=EV which of course is an absulote lie.

Ask me the same and I'll speak like the taxi drivers of Amsterdam: Would I recommend a Tesla? No, would I recommend an EV? Yes.

Also we talk of how fast EV are developing. So using one of the every first of the modern breed, an 11 year old vehicle, as an example is a bit much.

I gave no opinion, I guess that's some of the misinformation you seem saddled with.

Take it at face value or don't. I have no idea why taxi drivers dont like the s. I didn't ask. I suspect because an ev isn't suitable for the job they are asked to do with no reasonable time to charge between pickups when you are busy. I don't know so didn't give an opinion.

 

[SmallTown]

I gave no opinion, I guess that's some of the misinformation you seem saddled with.,

Take it at face value or don't. I have no idea why taxi drivers dont like the s. I didn't ask. I suspect because an ev isn't suitable for the job they are asked to do with no reasonable time to charge between pickups when you are busy. I don't know so didn't give an opinion.

No, you gave no opinion, but you implied that Taxi drivers don't like a really old, badly built EV. It would be odd to do this unless you wanted to spread the anti EV lines. Like I said, subtle. Interesting that you made a supposition about why they hated them, I gave a counter argument that you ignored. As I often repeat your supposition seems based on ignorance of EV and not understanding how to use them. You still saw fit to say it though

Can you at least agree that, an 11 year old car even an ICE one, will be less advanced than a current car. And Tesla aren't the only company producing EV?

 

[Laughing]

No, you gave no opinion, but you implied that Taxi drivers don't like a really old, badly built EV. It would be odd to do this unless you wanted to spread the anti EV lines. Like I said, subtle. Interesting that you made a supposition about why they hated them, I gave a counter argument that you ignored. As I often repeat your supposition seems based on ignorance of EV and not understanding how to use them. You still saw fit to say it though

Can you at least agree that, an 11 year old car even an ICE one, will be less advanced than a current car. And Tesla aren't the only company producing EV?

You struggle with anyone that disagrees with you. I have noticed this a lot.

 

[SmallTown]

You struggle with anyone that disagrees with you. I have noticed this a lot.

Not at all.

I'm just pointing out the inherent bias in your posts. It may be unconscious but it's certainly there. You've said people don't like one of the very first EV. Which is fair enough. You then try and surmise it's because they are an EV and therefore unsuitable. Which isn't fair enough

My father had a Hillman Minx, a petrol car. He said it was terrible, always breaking down and spend more time in the garage than at home. Using the same logic you've applied, all petrol cars are terrible and not suitable for the job because they always break down.

Can you at least agree that an 11 year old car, even an ICE one, will be less advanced than a current car. And Tesla aren't the only company producing EV?

 

[Soutra]

It's not alone. I still laugh at one of these discussions were someone posted a link to a "detailed" study into running costs of an EV which subtracted average salary from charging time to add to the costs. I think even the least knowledgable person must know that people don't just stand next to their car when charging their EV.

It's why I tend to contribute to these threads. There is so much misinformation and lies spread about EV I like to try and counteract it with personal experience and facts.

In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an article in which the EV use wasn't deliberately calculated to be in favour of the ICE vehicle. I'd love to see an article with the most normal situation: Car has off street parking and a charger can be installed and the journeys it is used for are 8.4 miles long. (This isn't stacking things in favour of the EV: it's based on averages. 75.3% of the country have access to off street parking and the average journey in the UK is 8.4 miles)

I don't know the figures but I'd be willing to bet good money the EV would be cheaper to run (and more convenient, imagine never having to visit a petrol station, and always climbing in a cabin at the right temperature) than an ICE

There's no doubt that, for most people's average use, an electric vehicle is great, environmentally and economically.

Most people deviate from the norm sometimes though, and that's when all the range anxiety issues surface.

Is the car's real world range what is claimed? Can I get to my destination without recharging? If I have to charge en route, where is the best place, what is the cost, how long will it take and what is the chance that the chargers won't be working?

Or, if I can make it without charging, will I have to immediately find a charger when I arrive? Do I want to arrive at a friend's house and then immediately leave again for an hour to find a charger and recharge the car?

Most people would accept some inconvenience in return for saving the planet. But when you are buying a more expensive EV than a similar petrol car, having to plan your journey, paying more to fuel it, and using up more time doing it, it may not be viable right now.

Will things get better? Yes. The game changer will be an electric car that does 400 miles in the real world.

 

[Laughing]

Not at all.

I'm just pointing out the inherent bias in your posts. It may be unconscious but it's certainly there. You've said people don't like one of the very first EV. Which is fair enough. You then try and surmise it's because they are an EV and therefore unsuitable. Which isn't fair enough

My father had a Hillman Minx, a petrol car. He said it was terrible, always breaking down and spend more time in the garage than at home. Using the same logic you've applied, all petrol cars are terrible and not suitable for the job because they always break down.

Can you at least agree that an 11 year old car, even an ICE one, will be less advanced than a current car. And Tesla aren't the only company producing EV?

There is no bias in my post. I have said multiple times and on this thread, drive what floats your boat.

Why would anyone's choice in car bother you. It seems to, a lot. And you think I am the one with the bias. I'll say it again, you seem to find it very difficult to accept that other people have a different viewpoint to you. You should celebrate that.

 

[Cambsred]

I think that article plays on all the anxieties you could have driving. The same anxieties that would exist if you had a diesel and were driving 600 miles into an unknown country.

As you get to know said vehicle/ country the journey planning becomes just the journey as you understand and have confidence in your kit/ the surrounding infrastructure.

The hardest sell will be to those that drive short journeys normally but do 3 big ones a year I feel.

 

[SmallTown]

Most people deviate from the norm sometimes though, and that's when all the range anxiety issues surface.

Is the car's real world range what is claimed? Can I get to my destination without recharging? If I have to charge en route, where is the best place, what is the cost, how long will it take and what is the chance that the chargers won't be working?

Or, if I can make it without charging, will I have to immediately find a charger when I arrive? Do I want to arrive at a friend's house and then immediately leave again for an hour to find a charger and recharge the car?

Most people would accept some inconvenience in return for saving the planet. But when you are buying a more expensive EV than a similar petrol car, having to plan your journey, paying more to fuel it, and using up more time doing it, it may not be viable right now.

Will things get better? Yes. The game changer will be an electric car that does 400 miles in the real world.

Yes I agree peoples sometimes involve exceptional journeys. It's just that's not an argument against them. I've taken 2 cross continental 2000km plus journeys in my EV and both have been fine. The only issue I faced was listening to the car nav and ignoring my own judgement and suffering a lengthier than necessary (47 Min) stop.

No the cars real world range isn't as claimed. But again this is one of those EV arguments that doesn't stand up to much scrutiny because it's exactly the same for ICE.

I get why you think a 400 miles range would be a game changer (I think the EQS450+ is the current king at 350) but you'll be surprised. Once people understand EV more those who just need a city car will be demanding smaller batteries. They'll gladly trade range on for lighter weight and quicker charging.

To address some of your other points EV are only slightly more expensive than ICE. I know I have to repeat that but it's because the "more expensive" argument is the most pervasive. And in my case it's cheaper than it's ICE equivalent.

The time difference of a journey is also overstated.

And the cost to fuel is incorrect

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Once the infrastructure is there for all to see people will become less anxious. It's still very much geared towards ICE customers while the oil companies bleed the last billions out of the system.

 

[SmallTown]

There is no bias in my post. I have said multiple times and on this thread, drive what floats your boat.

Why would anyone's choice in car bother you. It seems to, a lot. And you think I am the one with the bias. I'll say it again, you seem to find it very difficult to accept that other people have a different viewpoint to you. You should celebrate that.

It doesn't bother me. I'm just trying to correct misinformation. Which, consciously or not, you are spreading. I've explained to you why but I will again incase you didn't get it. You said in your last post that people might not like the Tesla model S because EV aren't fit for purpose as a taxi in Amsterdam. Only bias and wanting to discredit EV could leap to such conclusion. You're using I very small example of an important but very old and baldy built EV to make an assumption about all EV. Hence more Hillman Minx comparison. I'm just trying to break through the bias and misinformation.

 

[MolteniArcore]

The hardest sell will be to those that drive short journeys normally but do 3 big ones a year I feel.

I agree, but it is weird isn't it? For 362 days of the year the car will be fine but for the other 3 days you might have to stop at a services for 45 mins to charge it up (when on longer trips people stop anyway) and that would be the hard sell. A few hours over the course of the year isn't really much.