Will the ban on the sale of petrol/diesel cars happen in 7 years?

SmallTown

Well-known member
Most of the time yes unless it was fixer upper
I think those days are behind us. EV are just too simple. Unless you're talking about repairing interiors and steering/suspension

You still haven't answered what your "sure about that" comment was
 

Randy

Well-known member
I think those days are behind us. EV are just too simple. Unless you're talking about repairing interiors and steering/suspension

You still haven't answered what your "sure about that" comment was
Not been able to fix batteries
 

ThePrisoner

Well-known member
Not been able to fix batteries
I've never bought a car that could only do half the miles that it could when new. Not going to either. Either the battery tech improves or they need too be made swappable. The former may be to the benefit of the EV manufacturer but the latter isn't. We have already gone through this with mobile phones. Remember when they were replaceable? Not any more.
 

Muttley

Well-known member
In essence you can't "repair" a battery. You can replace faulty cells (remember that a "battery" is a collection of "cells") and you can remanufacture cells (reclaim the precious metals from them and renew the electrodes and electrolytes where required) is that "repairing"? Well sort of.

At present this is not economical to do but expired cells/batteries are stored because of the valuable materials within them not buried in landfill.

Also there are different battery technologies under development such as Sodium-Ion batteries that may not have the energy density (yet) of Li-Ion batteries but they use much more readily available materials.
 

Boro_Interlinked

Active member
Well , of course the alternative to all this changeover and upheaval is for those that control the matrix for finally let out the bag, the tech that allows you to convert your normal ice car to run off water. Be far fairer on those that do the invention work and have the understanding if the matrix controllers stopped killing them off and keeping the tech under wraps. Surely we are ready for water as fuel in ice cars now. Stan Meyer was one of the more impressive ones I remember looking into.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I've never bought a car that could only do half the miles that it could when new. Not going to either. Either the battery tech improves or they need too be made swappable. The former may be to the benefit of the EV manufacturer but the latter isn't. We have already gone through this with mobile phones. Remember when they were replaceable? Not any more.
The issue is that battery wear is over started. How long do you reckon it'll take to halve the range? You do realise, as well, that ICE engines become less efficient over time?
 

Laughing

Well-known member
The issue is that battery wear is over started. How long do you reckon it'll take to halve the range? You do realise, as well, that ICE engines become less efficient over time?
They do but a seal and bearing kit plus a long weekend restores it. Piston rings, little end bearings and reseating the valves gives you a brand new engine. All the wear on a petrol engine is reversible with consumable parts.

It's one of the big differences beetween the technologies.
 

Cardiffdaffs

Well-known member
That's a shame you were so quick to dismiss. Living in London is the one place where you almost have to have an EV. The south east is, as usual, better served for infrastructure than the rest of the country
No not a shame at all. Decision with the head And certainly not dismissed quickly. Please read I don’t drive in London unless I‘m leaving it and I can assure you infrastructure around here isn’t good enough.

Clearly judging from the amount of posts you feel some frustration with the arguments which is fine. You are getting great enjoyment from your vehicle and that’s great. But in your position I wouldn’t waste time encouraging others down the same path when you don’t know circumstances or where heads are at.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
No not a shame at all. Decision with the head And certainly not dismissed quickly. Please read I don’t drive in London unless I‘m leaving it and I can assure you infrastructure around here isn’t good enough.

Clearly judging from the amount of posts you feel some frustration with the arguments which is fine. You are getting great enjoyment from your vehicle and that’s great. But in your position I wouldn’t waste time encouraging others down the same path when you don’t know circumstances or where heads are at.
Where in London do you think the infrastructure isn't good enough? Curious question because it's better than anywhere else
 

Markburke

Well-known member
Being able to replenish batteries will be a total game changer. I had one of the early-ish Nissan leafs that I got cheap a year old. I had to sell it for financial reasons after four years.

The battery had gone down by 7% at that point (ie after 5 years). The car itself though was like brand new. Fibre glass body, light, far less moving parts to go wrong than an ICE.

When I bought the leaf it’s new battery could only do about 70 real world miles on a charge. New batteries now do 300 odd as standard. So if (and I haven’t researched it) the rate of degradation is similar, then after 10 years you’d lose 14% of capacity and still have a 286 mile range. After 20 years you’d have 272 mile range and a great non rusty car. (And one you can run off your solar panels for free if you have them - work out how much that would save you). Imagine that on a 30 year cycle or even 40.

Very different to the petrol guzzling ICE rust bucket I have now sadly.
 

Boro_Interlinked

Active member
Not sure what you incompatible charging comment is about, can you expand? Pretty much all cars use the same charging ports these days, except for some stragglers on Chademo. Or current draw? Can you explain these?

I picked it up from watching this , go to time 11.30 when he pulls in to the station and starts to talk about options, its just 2 mins covering this part. However the whole vid is interesting for a novice like me. The guy has done plenty of EV driving and he's decided to go back to hybrid.

 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I picked it up from watching this , go to time 11.30 when he pulls in to the station and starts to talk about options, its just 2 mins covering this part. However the whole vid is interesting for a novice like me. The guy has done plenty of EV driving and he's decided to go back to hybrid.

Yeah. Let's of shouty nonsense. So basically he's talking about, it sounds, someone trying to use the type 2 cable and the CCS on the same charger? Yeah that won't work. Obviously. Again not unique to EV. If I pull up at a petrol pump and someone is filling up with diesel. I can't fill up with unleaded from the same pump.

Looks like a video designed to make things look more complicated than they are. It preys on the fact people are scared of EV charging. In actual fact refuelling is quite simple. You pull up to a charger, pay and plug in. The only complexity is in Europe is you want to AC charge, you need to bring your own cable, which every car comes with.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
The battery had gone down by 7% at that point (ie after 5 years). The car itself though was like brand new. Fibre glass body, light, far less moving parts to go wrong than an ICE.
This is a good example of the misinformation people spread. A none EV user, on this very thread, has told me for a fact batteries degrade by 50%

You, who is experienced in EV, has told me it's 7% over your time frame. Now. I'm prepared to believe you, because it's actually happened to you. However I guarantee there will still be some on here who believe the 50% degradation lie
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
I picked it up from watching this , go to time 11.30 when he pulls in to the station and starts to talk about options, its just 2 mins covering this part. However the whole vid is interesting for a novice like me. The guy has done plenty of EV driving and he's decided to go back to hybrid.


I quite enjoyed that video - he's quite entertaining. But there are a few things to note.

He's test driving a Tesla and already made up his mind he's not having electric. He drives past a place where there are 4 chargers for some reason and decides to go where there are two. He tells a story about a 'broken' charger that was the reason why he gave up on electric but in 5 mins the problem was sorted - then moans that no one phoned it in to report it but doesn't phone the problem in on the other one! Plus aren't you only meant to charge them to 80%?

One thing that really frustrates me though is the kms left stat on the car. He really has an issue with this - in this video it takes him 140km or range to do 90km? But in ICE cars there is the same problem. You drive on the motorway at 65mph and it says you have 600 miles for a full tank but if you are driving around town that might be 400 miles. Maybe the software should be more accurate in the EVs but it is the same thing - range is based on how you are driving it.

This leads me on to my final point - he says the Honda had a range of 120km I think but he only ever got 85km. Now when I bought my car it said 49mpg combined - but do I ever get near that? No. Do I expect that? Yes. For years we know that the mpg quoted on cars if done in the perfect conditions and in real life you don't get that figure. I am not sure why it comes as a shock that Ev's have the same problem. Jesus, even phones suffer from that problem with their battery percentages.

In summery there isn't really an argument against EV in general - the arguments come from if it is suitable for you or if you even want one. This guy didn't like it and got rid - certainly doesn't mean that they are all bad. TBH it doesn't mean his Honda was bad - a different person with different driving styles / different journey requirements might love it - JUST THE SAME AS WITH ICE.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I quite enjoyed that video - he's quite entertaining. But there are a few things to note.

He's test driving a Tesla and already made up his mind he's not having electric. He drives past a place where there are 4 chargers for some reason and decides to go where there are two. He tells a story about a 'broken' charger that was the reason why he gave up on electric but in 5 mins the problem was sorted - then moans that no one phoned it in to report it but doesn't phone the problem in on the other one! Plus aren't you only meant to charge them to 80%?

One thing that really frustrates me though is the kms left stat on the car. He really has an issue with this - in this video it takes him 140km or range to do 90km? But in ICE cars there is the same problem. You drive on the motorway at 65mph and it says you have 600 miles for a full tank but if you are driving around town that might be 400 miles. Maybe the software should be more accurate in the EVs but it is the same thing - range is based on how you are driving it.

This leads me on to my final point - he says the Honda had a range of 120km I think but he only ever got 85km. Now when I bought my car it said 49mpg combined - but do I ever get near that? No. Do I expect that? Yes. For years we know that the mpg quoted on cars if done in the perfect conditions and in real life you don't get that figure. I am not sure why it comes as a shock that Ev's have the same problem. Jesus, even phones suffer from that problem with their battery percentages.

In summery there isn't really an argument against EV in general - the arguments come from if it is suitable for you or if you even want one. This guy didn't like it and got rid - certainly doesn't mean that they are all bad. TBH it doesn't mean his Honda was bad - a different person with different driving styles / different journey requirements might love it - JUST THE SAME AS WITH ICE.
A good summary. IN the interests of balance EV DO have a stronger decrease in range than ICE on a motorway. Due to (mainly) gearing and the ICE getting more air the faster it goes but it's all noticeable and manageable. To my knowledge only the Porsche Tacan tries to address this with a second gear, most EV only have 1.

Also true EV owners know you NEVER use the KM of range left. you use battery percentage which tends to be startling accurate (Although I did once see mine drop from "36% when you reach your destination" to 14% in just a matter of minutes. I put this down to the OH driving and cruising at 150MPH). Which just goes to prove it's a hatchet piece.
 
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