Violence returning to football - sickening

JM14 said:
No one is just that way inclined though, all sorts of factors define how a person is. But huge levels of social and economic deprivation, low levels of opportunity are fairly proven to result in increased crime/violent crime etc and that is all influenced directly from government. It’s not any coincidence that you will see higher levels of footballing violence in poor working class areas which have been hit the hardest, and not in affluent areas for the likes of Fulham/Reading etc

You can’t really compare violence today to the 70s, CCTV, harsher sentences, banning orders are all significant deterrents that weren’t around in that era. You would be risking your entire future to get involved in anything these days.

I understand people don’t want or like to talk politics, but boromarts comments are completely valid. With the amount of deprivation, unemployment, lack of facilities and now even food shortages were experiencing, on top of living under years of restrictions the threat of widespread disorder and violence is never far away, and I don’t really see how that can be blamed on anything but the government.
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How about Chelsea as a counter to your Fulham and Reading? Not really a poor area is it?

Of course its multi-faceted why people get involved in such things, to blame the government of the day is far too simple (and convenient for some out to drive there constant agenda).
There are many people involved in football violence that have had many, good opportunities in life but they chose that path because they enjoy it and get a ‘buzz’ from it. This has been shown so many times in the literature of this subject. For them, it really doesn’t come down to political persuasions, it’s just who they are.
 
Every club has thugs who use being a ‘fan’ as a cover for their violent behaviour. We had the low life’s who attacked the QPR guy with his kids recently. I have been away and been embarrassed by our own fans but more often really concerned by the horrible home team supporters West Ham, Burnley and Hull were not clever places to find yourself as an isolated Boro fan. It’s a working class sport that’s has always attracted lads looking for trouble . Sadly it is something that we can only ever suppress and condemn but never eradicate
 
JM14 said:
No one is just that way inclined though, all sorts of factors define how a person is. But huge levels of social and economic deprivation, low levels of opportunity are fairly proven to result in increased crime/violent crime etc and that is all influenced directly from government. It’s not any coincidence that you will see higher levels of footballing violence in poor working class areas which have been hit the hardest, and not in affluent areas for the likes of Fulham/Reading etc

You can’t really compare violence today to the 70s, CCTV, harsher sentences, banning orders are all significant deterrents that weren’t around in that era. You would be risking your entire future to get involved in anything these days.

I understand people don’t want or like to talk politics, but boromarts comments are completely valid. With the amount of deprivation, unemployment, lack of facilities and now even food shortages were experiencing, on top of living under years of restrictions the threat of widespread disorder and violence is never far away, and I don’t really see how that can be blamed on anything but the government.
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With regards to political discussion, have a look
at the 1st reply (BoroMart) )reply to the opening post. He manages to squeeze in politicians attacking wokism, Brexit, hatred of European and using Muslim girls as hate figures as reasons for the recent issues.

The opening sentence was about Napoli fans, who, from what I saw, attacked Leicester fans with belts. His replies weren’t at all relevant to opening post, yet he squeezes them in to take another thread into a political debate.

It may not bother you but I’m fairly sure it bothers plenty of others who come on here to talk about football and football related issues and not constant politics. I guess Rob would know about numbers on the board but I would hazard a guess they are declining for the above reasons. As a side issue, why not have a politics section and try and keep it separate from the football board?
 
Duffman said:
Every club has thugs who use being a ‘fan’ as a cover for their violent behaviour. We had the low life’s who attacked the QPR guy with his kids recently. I have been away and been embarrassed by our own fans but more often really concerned by the horrible home team supporters West Ham, Burnley and Hull were not clever places to find yourself as an isolated Boro fan. It’s a working class sport that’s has always attracted lads looking for trouble . Sadly it is something that we can only ever suppress and condemn but never eradicate
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There was a fight outside yesterday, a couple of young lads assume they were Boro started swinging at another lad, assume Blackpool but they didn’t expect the lad to fight back but he got a few punches in and the lads scattered with their hoods up, which to me indicated scrotes rather than casual fans, the police filmed the incident.
 
TRANSIT-TRIPPER said:
at the 1st reply (BoroMart) )reply to the opening post. He manages to squeeze in politicians attacking wokism, Brexit, hatred of European and using Muslim girls as hate figures as reasons for the recent issues.
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wokism deserves attacking -- it's code for lets undermine empathy, which is a sociopathic view.

Brexit, as I have stated I think three times now, I put as another symptom of this government, just like a return to football violence. It was evidence of the change our society, that football violence is a part of. Like it or not, accept it or not, our culture is changing for the worse, football violence doesn't exist in isolation from the rest of society, and governments are in the business of building societies.

I was also alluding to a specific muslim girl, you know who, and how she has been specifically called out, more so than people that actually went and fought for isis, and the baying masses lap up the hate

But you carry on TT, you keep that head buried, you keep pretending that the things that happen in our society have zero relationship to the society the government builds. Anyway, blocked, you have nothing of interest to say, and have to resort to petty childish insults, I'm not interested in that level of intellect in my life, cheers, have a good one and UTFB
 
BoroMart said:
wokism deserves attacking -- it's code for lets undermine empathy, which is a sociopathic view.

Brexit, as I have stated I think three times now, I put as another symptom of this government, just like a return to football violence. It was evidence of the change our society, that football violence is a part of. Like it or not, accept it or not, our culture is changing for the worse, football violence doesn't exist in isolation from the rest of society, and governments are in the business of building societies.

I was also alluding to a specific muslim girl, you know who, and how she has been specifically called out, more so than people that actually went and fought for isis, and the baying masses lap up the hate

But you carry on TT, you keep that head buried, you keep pretending that the things that happen in our society have zero relationship to the society the government builds. Anyway, blocked, you have nothing of interest to say, and have to resort to petty childish insults, I'm not interested in that level of intellect in my life, cheers, have a good one and UTFB
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None of your points are relevant to Napoli fans attacking Leicester fans, yet you shoehorn them into a reply. Can I suggest that you have look at yourself and your constant need to nail your political leanings to the post. I think every single person who uses this board knows your stance because it is mentioned at every opportunity on every thread.

You have already said you blocked me earlier but have since replied to my posts. Bizarre that.
 
Aet290204 said:
I’m not gonna bite. Go pick on someone else.
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you just bit though.

I'm not 'picking' on anyone, you have to look elsewhere for that on this thread. I have an opinion, I've backed it up with some ONS evidence, and a handful of people have jumped to the Tory can never do wrong dogwhistle and attacked me. I'm a big boy though, I can take it. It backs up my views when you lot ask for evidence, I give it and instead of talking about the evidence you attack me.
 
BoroMart said:
you just bit though.

I'm not 'picking' on anyone, you have to look elsewhere for that on this thread. I have an opinion, I've backed it up with some ONS evidence, and a handful of people have jumped to the Tory can never do wrong dogwhistle and attacked me. I'm a big boy though, I can take it. It backs up my views when you lot ask for evidence, I give it and instead of talking about the evidence you attack me.
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I get the impression you could start a fight in an empty room lol

I’m off to bed now. Sleep well.
 
Glover_elbow said:
I have to disagree JM14 i don't believe social deprivation has any influence whatsoever on football hooliganism. in fact i would say most of these hooligans are gainfully employed, and not at the bottom of the poverty scale. travelling to away games , purchasing tickets, designer gear as well coke its not cheap . Fulham and reading have no history of violence, but clubs like Chelsea do, and their fans are far from poverty stricken, and the innercity firms of the eighties weren't either. hooliganism to me is a completely separate entity to violent crime which i agree is linked to economic depravation and government polices.
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I might just be out of touch with how all of this works, but I would imagine the traditional hooliganism takes place out of sight and it’s the idiots clinging onto it that cause the problems for the average fan. The hooligan aspect of football in the 70s/80s/90s was long before my time however so I could be completely wrong with that
 
TRANSIT-TRIPPER said:
How about Chelsea as a counter to your Fulham and Reading? Not really a poor area is it?

Of course its multi-faceted why people get involved in such things, to blame the government of the day is far too simple (and convenient for some out to drive there constant agenda).
There are many people involved in football violence that have had many, good opportunities in life but they chose that path because they enjoy it and get a ‘buzz’ from it. This has been shown so many times in the literature of this subject. For them, it really doesn’t come down to political persuasions, it’s just who they are.
Click to expand...
I wasn’t blaming the government and the government only, there are far more factors at play than that. But again I don’t think it’s really a factor you can say has no influence at all. No one is just born like that. All sorts of social, economic and environmental factors make a person how they are. And among many things, actions from the government can influence this
 
BoroMart said:
you just bit though.

I'm not 'picking' on anyone, you have to look elsewhere for that on this thread. I have an opinion, I've backed it up with some ONS evidence, and a handful of people have jumped to the Tory can never do wrong dogwhistle and attacked me. I'm a big boy though, I can take it. It backs up my views when you lot ask for evidence, I give it and instead of talking about the evidence you attack me.
Click to expand...
That´s the problem with those people though isn´t it? The sequence is always the same:

Disagrees with a political argument.

Gets lost in their argument so asks you to provide evidence

When they get the evidence change the goalposts to argue something else

Personally insult the person providing the evidence.

It's the cycle we seem to follow on here.
 
TRANSIT-TRIPPER said:
With regards to political discussion, have a look
at the 1st reply (BoroMart) )reply to the opening post. He manages to squeeze in politicians attacking wokism, Brexit, hatred of European and using Muslim girls as hate figures as reasons for the recent issues.

The opening sentence was about Napoli fans, who, from what I saw, attacked Leicester fans with belts. His replies weren’t at all relevant to opening post, yet he squeezes them in to take another thread into a political debate.

It may not bother you but I’m fairly sure it bothers plenty of others who come on here to talk about football and football related issues and not constant politics. I guess Rob would know about numbers on the board but I would hazard a guess they are declining for the above reasons. As a side issue, why not have a politics section and try and keep it separate from the football board?
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But the board isn’t football and football only though. People talk about cricket, f1, rugby, tennis, music, politics and life in general. On a public forum you surely just scroll past what you aren’t interested in.
Banning any talk of anything but football will kill the forum, look at oneboro, they will be lucky to have 15 comments today. It would kill the forum
 
JM14 said:
I might just be out of touch with how all of this works, but I would imagine the traditional hooliganism takes place out of sight and it’s the idiots clinging onto it that cause the problems for the average fan. The hooligan aspect of football in the 70s/80s/90s was long before my time however so I could be completely wrong with that
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The game changer inside stadiums was the introduction of CCTV. Thugs could be identified and prosecuted far more easily. This led to a lot of organised tear ups away from the grounds.
 
JM14 said:
I wasn’t blaming the government and the government only, there are far more factors at play than that. But again I don’t think it’s really a factor you can say has no influence at all. No one is just born like that. All sorts of social, economic and environmental factors make a person how they are. And among many things, actions from the government can influence this
Click to expand...
very few people are born violent sociopaths, less than 1% are born sociopath, and even fewer enact that through violence. People are both genetically violent or violent through their experience of the world, this has long been known.
 
SmallTown said:
That´s the problem with those people though isn´t it? The sequence is always the same:

Disagrees with a political argument.

Gets lost in their argument so asks you to provide evidence

When they get the evidence change the goalposts to argue something else

Personally insult the person providing the evidence.

It's the cycle we seem to follow on here.
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No SmallTown, the sequence is as follows….

Football related topic….someone inserts over the top political points that aren’t relevant ….other members disagree with constant politicising of every debate…..ask said persons to change this approach as it is ruining the board…..said person too blindsided by their own beliefs tbat they don’t change ( repeat ad nauseum)

Sure discuss politics, ideally on a separate section, but every subject does not need to have the same arguments shoehorned in.
 
I'm old enough to seen far too much hooliganism - and I have been in considerable danger attending football matches numerous times.

I have given up wondering what winds people up so much that they need to become pugilistic, because the reasons are probably numerous and complex - but I would guess they are societal, whether you think that is a government thing or not. I am appalled that in a modern society the law-abiding majority have to tolerate grown men (and it is mainly grown men who should know better) fighting in public, without the merest thought about anyone else or anything else. Let's say it as it is - disgusting behaviour that appears to continue with impunity.

I might add that when I was a couple of days late paying my council tax (their error, not mine) a summons was in the pipeline almost immediately. Until there is meaningful sanction (and I don't claim to know what it might be) football hooliganism and its close relative domestic violence will continue. In the meantime, a huge investment in education and facilities for kids would pay dividends for society later.

All in my opinion, of course.
 
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