UK Debt tops £2 trillion debt for first time on record

Alvez_48 said:
I will give you National Minimum Wage and I'll even give him the human rights act!

To counter balance all of the above was in his first 5 years of leadership and at the same time he cut lone parent benefits, went to war in Afghanistan, invaded Iraq.
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There is other stuff but we are going round the houses a bit.

I’d love a really strong focus on fairness. equality and all that brings with it.
The chances of getting elected with that kind of mantra have been shown to be zero.
The way my mind works:
You do more of the same and you get the same results - Tory government
or
You do things a bit different and ‘manage the message’ in order to get elected. Once elected you take your chance.

I’m struggling to find another legitimate way to get rid of the Tory’s (don’t forget with the forthcoming boundary changes it is going to have to take the biggest swing ever).

I guess my goal is to get rid of Johnson et al so may be prepared to compromise more than some.

Bit of anectdotal feedback - was with my Tory voting mates last weekend. Everyone of them said they would switch to Starmer next time around.
For them it was about trust.
 
1finny said:
There is other stuff but we are going round the houses a bit.

I’d love a really strong focus on fairness. equality and all that brings with it.
The chances of getting elected with that kind of mantra have been shown to be zero.
The way my mind works:
You do more of the same and you get the same results - Tory government
or
You do things a bit different and ‘manage the message’ in order to get elected. Once elected you take your chance.

I’m struggling to find another legitimate way to get rid of the Tory’s (don’t forget with the forthcoming boundary changes it is going to have to take the biggest swing ever).

I guess my goal is to get rid of Johnson et al so may be prepared to compromise more than some.
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And I totally respect your vote, see I might vote labour I might not. I won't ever vote Tory.
 
Duffman said:
At least the money that got us into such debt wasn’t wasted
https://apple.news/AOUdQNE_JRuOHBdHqDB_7zQ
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"One firm told HuffPost UK its plan to manufacture face masks in the UK for as little as 10p a unit was turned down by government, despite its offer to make 75m masks a month at no profit at the point when the NHS need for PPE was at its most dire."

They must create an opportunity for their prefered choices to make profit, and are anti-Socialist despite the benefit it would provide for themselves and the country.
 
BoroMart said:
Sorry mate but he's done loads of work for human rights, one prosecution case doesn't change that.

Light blue, nope it's balanced, he believes in curbing excess and protecting peoples rights and supporting those at the bottom of society. He believes in public ownership of the rails and several of other socialist policies. He's a pragmatic socialist which is better than an extremist socialist or capitalist like we had at the last election
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Corbyn was hardly extremist. Although the MSM would have you believe he was.
 
Alvez_48 said:
Hmmm so essentially you're saying the credit bubbles created between 1998-2005 that my generation now has to pay for in forever inflated house prices and terrible prospects were worth it because the generation before me had a great time.
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It's your generation's time now and for the decades in front of you. You've already decided you don't want to use the High St and as a result we're going to have mass redundancies.

The Welfare State has been set up for you so that there's a safety net, the NHS is at present free at the point of service (negotiations taking place to end this?).

The generation that decided to run down British industry, accept mass unemployment as a norm and increase the wealth gap are coming to the end of their days but you don't have to maintain the status quo.

Over to you, and good luck with it. If you're fighting against what's happened you'll get plenty of help from the oldies, it's your own generation that are going to be your biggest problem.
 
1finny said:
Once elected you take your chance.
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Thats the difficult part. AFAIK there's no historical examples of Labour govs swinging left once elected. Even Blair's most ardent fans must feel a bit like he didn't really take the chance he had with the majority and mandate won in 97.

1finny said:
Everyone of them said they would switch to Starmer next time
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Tbf this is probably the reason why. If Starmer ever wins an election and if indeed tory voters are the ones to give him the win he'll be terrified of upsetting them.
 
SuperStu said:
Thats the difficult part. AFAIK there's no historical examples of Labour govs swinging left once elected. Even Blair's most ardent fans must feel a bit like he didn't really take the chance he had with the majority and mandate won in 97.



Tbf this is probably the reason why. If Starmer ever wins an election and if indeed tory voters are the ones to give him the win he'll be terrified of upsetting them.
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Thing its a slow erosion of the establishments death grip to gain social advantages for us all. Show any intent for equality and fairness you have the BBC ,Murdoch and two bob racist Tories go into patriot rwnj mode. We need stealth. Starmer fits the bill, dont let some of snidey BS posters keep harping on about Corbyn, as thats what they want.
 
deganya said:
Corbyn was hardly extremist. Although the MSM would have you believe he was.
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No, he wasnt extremist. He just wasnt prime minister material as the British people showed in the polls. He wasnt even a good opposition leader. Stop with this nonsense that the media lost the election for him. It was the brexit dithering that did him in, and lost some massive labour seats in the process.
 
BoroMart said:
War in Afghanistan was justified. Some would even justify the war in Iraq against a brutal dictator that gassed his own people (even if that isn't what the Tory PR would like you to believe).
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Justified war in Iraq ??? Your kidding right?
Brutal dictator or not, that was NOT the premise.
 
No1_club said:
Justified war in Iraq ??? Your kidding right?
Brutal dictator or not, that was NOT the premise.
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The final premise of WMD may be wrong, however, he had repeatedly murdered his own people, that is undoubted, and neither did he show any intent to treat sections of his populace any better.
 
No1_club said:
No, he wasnt extremist. He just wasnt prime minister material as the British people showed in the polls. He wasnt even a good opposition leader. Stop with this nonsense that the media lost the election for him. It was the brexit dithering that did him in, and lost some massive labour seats in the process.
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Corbyn defeated the government over 40 times as opposition leader- more than any other opposition leader. MSM didn't mention it though. What does a good opposition leader need to do to become a good opposition leader?
MSM battered Corbyn including the BBC showing a picture of Corbyn against a Moscow skyline, Laura Keunsberg lying about a Tory minister being attacked by Labour acitvists. Saying nothing about the Islamaphobia in Tory party but going hammer and tongs about anti semitism. I agree about the Brexit bit though. MSM didn't mention it tough
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/czzh79
 
BoroMart said:
War in Afghanistan was justified. Some would even justify the war in Iraq against a brutal dictator that gassed his own people (even if that isn't what the Tory PR would like you to believe).
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That war in Iraq left people with a lot of scars, sent to a warzone Ill equipped is something that should of seen Blair go to prison alone, never mind his reasons for going. The investigation that followed ruined a lot of my friends lives. The war in Iraq will never be justified and I don't think Afghan can be either, I took a lot of life experiences from both but I dont think you can justify either of them.
 
Trug said:
Corbyn defeated the government over 40 times as opposition leader- more than any other opposition leader. MSM didn't mention it though. What does a good opposition leader need to do to become a good opposition leader?
MSM battered Corbyn including the BBC showing a picture of Corbyn against a Moscow skyline, Laura Keunsberg lying about a Tory minister being attacked by Labour acitvists. Saying nothing about the Islamaphobia in Tory party but going hammer and tongs about anti semitism. I agree about the Brexit bit though. MSM didn't mention it tough
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/czzh79
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Sorry. I appear to have touched a nerve
 
Tees_In_The_USA said:
That war in Iraq left people with a lot of scars, sent to a warzone Ill equipped is something that should of seen Blair go to prison alone, never mind his reasons for going. The investigation that followed ruined a lot of my friends lives. The war in Iraq will never be justified and I don't think Afghan can be either, I took a lot of life experiences from both but I dont think you can justify either of them.
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Well that's your opinion but you can't allow countries to harbour international terrorists, and you can't turn a blind eye to murderous regimes, indiscriminately gassing citizens either. I don't deny that we didn't plan how those countries would improve beyond the wars, or that the government sexed up the public story about WMD. However there was still justification for force against Sadam who was not complying with weapons inspectors, had previously launching missiles at Israel to try and create a wider conflict and concerns were justified of him doing this again, circumventing international laws, defying the UN, killing opposition to his leadership, torturing citizens who did not fully comply with his regime, and ethnically cleansing elements of society. The idea that Blair is a war criminal is a great story for the Tory media to push, but lets not forget that almost every Tory voted to go to war, and those same ones turned around and accused Blair afterwards. There was some media spin to sell the war, but I don't buy that he is a war criminal, naive in believing american intelligence, naive in believing we could make it a better country, naive to think the yanks weren't going to use it as an opportunity to gain access and influence over oil production. But not a ware criminal for me. If Blair is a war criminal for sending us in ill prepared, with some PR spin around the reason for war, then every wartime leader we have ever had would also be a war criminal and some, say Churchill were actually real war criminals specifically targeting civilians.
 
Trug said:
Corbyn defeated the government over 40 times as opposition leader- more than any other opposition leader. MSM didn't mention it though. What does a good opposition leader need to do to become a good opposition leader?
MSM battered Corbyn including the BBC showing a picture of Corbyn against a Moscow skyline, Laura Keunsberg lying about a Tory minister being attacked by Labour acitvists. Saying nothing about the Islamaphobia in Tory party but going hammer and tongs about anti semitism. I agree about the Brexit bit though. MSM didn't mention it tough
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/czzh79
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What Trug said 👍
 
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