UK Debt tops £2 trillion debt for first time on record

Same 😭 still friends though right?
sorry, not trying to be arsey, well maybe a little. I've started working on a global financial institution project, and it's a right nightmare. I'm taking lunch today first time this week to catch up on life and get ready to teach my U15s team tonight. I feel dirty as someone that sees capitalism and communism as equally repugnant systems working where I am, but hey I got kids to feed and the markets quiet right now. But it's a stressful environment and I can understand why people burn out after 3 years working here.
 
Got to say I'm with r00fie and Alves as far as Starmer is concerned. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. For a socialist he didn't take long purging his fellow socialists from the front bench and he was also part of the chicken coup against Corbyn. He's done nothing about the leaked labour report except throw Corbyn supporters under a bus by paying out compensation before it even got to court in a case that their QC said was eminently winnable. For all the lies, corruption and incompetence spewing out of this government he is strangely silent and yet In the week after Dawn Butler had to close her constituency office due to threats of death and rape, and after a study which showed that of all the threats and insults aimed at politicians on social media, 50% were addressed to Diane Abbott, Starmer tweets this.


No mention of them.
 
Got to say I'm with r00fie and Alves as far as Starmer is concerned. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. For a socialist he didn't take long purging his fellow socialists from the front bench and he was also part of the chicken coup against Corbyn. He's done nothing about the leaked labour report except throw Corbyn supporters under a bus by paying out compensation before it even got to court in a case that their QC said was eminently winnable. For all the lies, corruption and incompetence spewing out of this government he is strangely silent and yet In the week after Dawn Butler had to close her constituency office due to threats of death and rape, and after a study which showed that of all the threats and insults aimed at politicians on social media, 50% were addressed to Diane Abbott, Starmer tweets this.


No mention of them.
I think the challenge he is facing is to make the party electable. He is trying to cut ties with the Corbyn regime which ultimately failed. There is a toxicity around Corbyn, Abbot et al, mostly unfairly, but in the general public to support and side with the old regime will result in future failure.

Keep your eyes on the ball people, if people want more socialist policies (and actual individual policies are often very popular) we need to elect something centre-left on a journey to a fairer society, because something perceived as more radical left will not land with the public right now.We haven't had a totally left government for well over 40 years and it would require moving the Overton window left a bit before that becomes palatable.
 
I think the challenge he is facing is to make the party electable. He is trying to cut ties with the Corbyn regime which ultimately failed. There is a toxicity around Corbyn, Abbot et al, mostly unfairly, but in the general public to support and side with the old regime will result in future failure.

Keep your eyes on the ball people, if people want more socialist policies (and actual individual policies are often very popular) we need to elect something centre-left on a journey to a fairer society, because something perceived as more radical left will not land with the public right now.We haven't had a totally left government for well over 40 years and it would require moving the Overton window left a bit before that becomes palatable.

Spoken like a guardian columnist. 😉

Let's play out your theory, let's look at the USA ... Obama gets in promising change but is actually centrist.. people get so angry they vote in trump.. now how far has that 'overton window shifted left'?

I don't hugely disagree with your sentiment but I'd actually say that left / right paradigm is ending and status quo corporate politicians like Starmer do nothing for progress.
 
Spoken like a guardian columnist. 😉

Let's play out your theory, let's look at the USA ... Obama gets in promising change but is actually centrist.. people get so angry they vote in trump.. now how far has that 'overton window shifted left'?

I don't hugely disagree with your sentiment but I'd actually say that left / right paradigm is ending and status quo corporate politicians like Starmer do nothing for progress.

Yes - I can see that
Isn’t one term better than no term tho?
And a different example would be Blair who got 3 terms, the first two of which were reasonably progressive.
I would have liked much more from his first term personally but understand the need for caution.

Be interested to know what a realistic alternative might look like
 
Yes - I can see that
Isn’t one term better than no term tho?
And a different example would be Blair who got 3 terms, the first two of which were reasonably progressive.
I would have liked much more from his first term personally but understand the need for caution.

Be interested to know what a realistic alternative might look like

If you would like to say Blair's first two terms were progressive please provide me a list of progressive accomplishments and dates. 👍🏻

The realistic alternative I don't have, Corbyn if had been given a fair ride the press would have been prime minister now but he wasn't and the press is incredibly powerful. In truth I don't think theres much hope for progressive change, we are moving away from democracy if it's even existed for the past 20 years.
 
If you would like to say Blair's first two terms were progressive please provide me a list of progressive accomplishments and dates. 👍🏻

The realistic alternative I don't have, Corbyn if had been given a fair ride the press would have been prime minister now but he wasn't and the press is incredibly powerful. In truth I don't think theres much hope for progressive change, we are moving away from democracy if it's even existed for the past 20 years.

Fair shout (depends how you define progressive of course). Here’s a few:

National Minimum Wage
Writes off debt to poor countries
Dads get paternity leave for the first time
Banned fox hunting
Scrapped section 28
Civil Partnerships
Child tax credits for poorest families
 
Let's play out your theory, let's look at the USA ... Obama gets in promising change but is actually centrist.. people get so angry they vote in trump.. now how far has that 'overton window shifted left'?
I don't buy that example because both parties in the US have been right wing and not pretended to be anything else for decades upon decades. It is also a different system of governance over there, with two elected houses and a president with power that is limited.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pog
Its a constant war of attrition against rwnj people, it has been for a 1000 years or more. We defeated rule by relgion, and weakened the evilness of fascism and are dismantling oppression and exploitation, its now up to the millenials to make progress.
 
If you would like to say Blair's first two terms were progressive please provide me a list of progressive accomplishments and dates. 👍🏻

The realistic alternative I don't have, Corbyn if had been given a fair ride the press would have been prime minister now but he wasn't and the press is incredibly powerful. In truth I don't think theres much hope for progressive change, we are moving away from democracy if it's even existed for the past 20 years.
Blairs first two terms included the longest run of economic growth on record, while investing in schools, infrastructure, and social systems like the NHS, surestart, mental health services and a whole host of others. I challange you to pick a better period in history to be a working class Brit than say 98-2005. Loads of jobs, loads of opportunity, increased wages, and a strong cultural time
 
Fair shout (depends how you define progressive of course). Here’s a few:

National Minimum Wage
Writes off debt to poor countries
Dads get paternity leave for the first time
Banned fox hunting
Scrapped section 28
Civil Partnerships
Child tax credits for poorest families


I will give you National Minimum Wage and I'll even give him the human rights act!

To counter balance all of the above was in his first 5 years of leadership and at the same time he cut lone parent benefits, went to war in Afghanistan, invaded Iraq.
 
I will give you National Minimum Wage and I'll even give him the human rights act!

To counter balance all of the above was in his first 5 years of leadership and at the same time he cut lone parent benefits, went to war in Afghanistan, invaded Iraq.
War in Afghanistan was justified. Some would even justify the war in Iraq against a brutal dictator that gassed his own people (even if that isn't what the Tory PR would like you to believe).
 
Blairs first two terms included the longest run of economic growth on record, while investing in schools, infrastructure, and social systems like the NHS, surestart, mental health services and a whole host of others. I challange you to pick a better period in history to be a working class Brit than say 98-2005. Loads of jobs, loads of opportunity, increased wages, and a strong cultural time

Hmmm so essentially you're saying the credit bubbles created between 1998-2005 that my generation now has to pay for in forever inflated house prices and terrible prospects were worth it because the generation before me had a great time.
 
Back
Top