UK Debt tops £2 trillion debt for first time on record

[BoroMart]

Dresden I think he meant lefty

Yes Dresden, and you know what irks me, the dishonesty. Those very people screaming that Churchill is a hero and we need to protect our history are the ones that largely don't know or are in denial about our history based on some PR and selective facts. Yes he was a great war time leader and orator, but there is a lot to not admire about him. Painting him as a some untouchable figure is dishonest in the extreme in the same way as summing up Blair as 'the war criminal' is. These are three dimensional complex people in high pressure situations, and only a fool would sum them up so flippantly as just 'war criminal'. They both did good and bad. I would argue that Churchills good was greater and Churchills bad was also greater and it's pretty difficult to put a sensible, reasoned and coherent argument to the contrary.

 

[Tees_In_The_USA]

Yes Dresden, and you know what irks me, the dishonesty. Those very people screaming that Churchill is a hero and we need to protect our history are the ones that largely don't know or are in denial about our history based on some PR and selective facts. Yes he was a great war time leader and orator, but there is a lot to not admire about him. Painting him as a some untouchable figure is dishonest in the extreme in the same way as summing up Blair as 'the war criminal' is. These are three dimensional complex people in high pressure situations, and only a fool would sum them up so flippantly as just 'war criminal'. They both did good and bad. I would argue that Churchills good was greater and Churchills bad was also greater and it's pretty difficult to put a sensible, reasoned and coherent argument to the contrary.

Churchill and Blair are two very different things, Blair went to war on a lie and Churchill won a world war, the man should be rotting in prison, instead he roams free and it's a slap in the face to all those innocent people who died and their families because he wanted to impress George bush. Also a lot of people really admire Winston Churchill and I'm one of them he was great man.

 

[BoroMart]

Churchill and Blair are two very different things, Blair went to war on a lie and Churchill won a world war, the man should be rotting in prison, instead he roams free and it's a slap in the face to all those innocent people who died and their families because he wanted to impress George bush. Also a lot of people really admire Winston Churchill and I'm one of them he was great man.

No two situations are the same, but as I said it's a matter of public record that one of Blair/Churchill chose to carpet bomb civilians without military justification. If people admire that, then you have to question people.

 

[Lefty]

Yes Dresden, and you know what irks me, the dishonesty. Those very people screaming that Churchill is a hero and we need to protect our history are the ones that largely don't know or are in denial about our history based on some PR and selective facts. Yes he was a great war time leader and orator, but there is a lot to not admire about him. Painting him as a some untouchable figure is dishonest in the extreme in the same way as summing up Blair as 'the war criminal' is. These are three dimensional complex people in high pressure situations, and only a fool would sum them up so flippantly as just 'war criminal'. They both did good and bad. I would argue that Churchills good was greater and Churchills bad was also greater and it's pretty difficult to put a sensible, reasoned and coherent argument to the contrary.

I had some concerns at the back of my mind about the criticism of the allied strategic bombing of german population centres, especially Dresden. A lot of the narratives that emerged after the war persisted, but recently there has been much more statistical analysis done and some views have shifted. The operation side of WW2 was neglected in favour of the tactical sexy stuff.

This is the best counter summary I’ve found.