Tui close to going bust? - A Rumour

I wonder if we are almost returning to an era of foreign package hols and air travel being prohibitably expensive for most families. At least all the cancellation of all these unnecessary flights is good for the planet
 
Andy_W said:
Depends whether you want to be protected by ATOL, and also have a larger company to complain too, if anything went wrong. I do loads of trips as flights and separate booking, but major holidays always go with a big agent.

I like TUI, they're reasonable on price, make it all very easy and you can have great confidence in knowing what you're going to get. In my experience they've been way better than any other holiday company.
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I haven't for well over 15 years as they add extra cost. We were delayed by 5 hours on our last trip and compensation was still the same.. Jesus, Dec 2019 :(
 
sadgit said:
Never used them and never had a need to. Flights and AirBnB mean I don't need to stay with the riff raff :D :D :D
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sadgit said:
I haven't for well over 15 years as they add extra cost. We were delayed by 5 hours on our last trip and compensation was still the same.. Jesus, Dec 2019 :(
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I generally use TUI and never had major delays I'd say you were just a touch unlucky with you experience,I'm a touch worried my holiday from Manchester next week is at risk as yesterdays' flight was cancelled to the same destination but I can see why airports are struggling to find staff for low paid seasonal jobs usually situated in remote locations.
 
sadgit said:
I haven't for well over 15 years as they add extra cost. We were delayed by 5 hours on our last trip and compensation was still the same.. Jesus, Dec 2019 :(
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Fair enough, each to their own. I was all for package holidays, then I went the complete other way, and now I'm back again.

Delays can happen, it's not normally the retail arm that causes that, it's the airline aspect and we know they all struggle. Often if you're making your own package the flights end up with Ryanair or Easyjet or some cheap long haul provider, and they're never that great (unless you pay a fortune), and often pummel you on baggage/ seat choices etc. I've been on Dreamliner's and all sorts with TUI and they've been great, can't actually think of a bad or late flight with them, and must have done 10 package trips by now.

I've had a lot of hotels which have been poorer than the reviews suggest when doing it as separates, but with TUI it's always been as expected (very high standard). I've had the odd time where we've not had the greatest of rooms (missus is well picky), but they've always sorted something great out.
Appreciate it may cost more, but when I factor in for the faff of booking separate hotel, flights, transfers and whatnot, I don't see the extra cost as a problem compared to the extra time spent/ stress. If TUI mess something up, they will fix it, it's their problem. It's always handy having a rep on site too, in case anything does go wrong, as they really do back you up, and have the buying power to pull more strings etc.

From my experience, most other large package holiday companies aren't as good, and it was this difference with TUI which swayed me back to packages.

I sound like I've got shares in TUI here, the way I'm praising them, but really can't fault them from my experience.
 
Glover_elbow said:
I wonder if we are almost returning to an era of foreign package hols and air travel being prohibitably expensive for most families. At least all the cancellation of all these unnecessary flights is good for the planet
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Not sure about that, the planes still need to fly (whether to avoid maintenance if they stand idle or to get to where they need to be). They'll just do it without people rather than with.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Not sure about that, the planes still need to fly (whether to avoid maintenance if they stand idle or to get to where they need to be). They'll just do it without people rather than with.
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They won't fly with less people, as it would jack the cost up for those who can afford it (fuel/ staff/ maintenance per flying hour still needs to be paid), then more would drop out of affordability, so less would fly, so prices would go up and up.

Could end up with lots of grounded planes for a year or two, at smaller/ private airfields where they don't incur massive costs, to reduce overall capacity. But the ones which did fly would end up full capacity (and with higher fares).

Need the Russia problem to go away and soon, and get a grip on inflation/ rising fuel costs elsewhere, but it won't happen quick as it will take years to wean off Russian Oil/ Gas and replace with a reliable alternative supply.

The planes and holiday companies are profitable/ good businesses over the long term, but just not now, especially after 2 years of Covid. They run on such tight margins, to make things affordable and compete, that any time something bad happens they really struggle as they don't have the reserves to run on reduced turnover, for the same fleet size.
 
Andy_W said:
Could end up with lots of grounded planes for a year or two, at smaller/ private airfields where they don't incur massive costs, to reduce overall capacity. But the ones which did fly would end up full capacity (and with higher fares).
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Airlines are reluctant to ground planes, as the maintenance checks on a previously grounded plane are much more expensive than flying an empty plane for the necessary hours and then conducting the maintenance needed on a "active" plane.

So during the height of COVID you had lots of empty planes flying about to get their hours in, rather than sitting idle. Hardly great for the environment.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Airlines are reluctant to ground planes, as the maintenance checks on a previously grounded plane are much more expensive than flying an empty plane for the necessary hours and then conducting the maintenance needed on a "active" plane.

So during the height of COVID you had lots of empty planes flying about to get their hours in, rather than sitting idle. Hardly great for the environment.
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Aye, I'm well aware (used to be an aircraft engineer), but I think they were doing that as they saw it as more short term, and didn't want to sack all the pilots and staff, or arrange/ facilitate storage at smaller airfields so the alternative was grounding planes at the likes of Heathrow/ Manchester etc which incur massive storage costs.

If they think this will last 1-2 years, then putting a jet to bed for 1-2 years, and having them ran up on the ground every couple of months and a couple of test flights before going back into full service will be far cheaper than flying planes with nobody on them, and accumulating more flying hours, shortening the life of the aircraft (and ultimately lessening the £ received per flying hour, which are ran to the bone as it is). The main issue I can see with this is if we had all the aircraft coming back out at the same time, as there wouldn't be the manpower (or parts) to get them back to serviceability, so would need to be a gradual ramp up.

It might even be case of them paying 1.1x to store now, so that they can make back 1.5x when they start flying again etc.

I think some of the problems now, seem to be from oversold flights, but they shouldn't be using the same oversell % as less people will be cancelling/ not turning up, as they're more desperate to get away (after 2 years of covid). Also they're struggling with staffing, so really need to cut down on the flights they're offering, well in advance, which would mean putting planes to bed for a while. At the minute it seems they're trying to maintain a full schedule, overselling all the flights, and doing this with less staff, it's not possible/ sustainable.
 
For the good of the planet the answer is longer holidays travelling by train to destinations with stop overs.

We really should embrace technology for the good of all, not just for travel companies making a profit.
 
As I understood it airlines were running empty flights otherwise they'd lose the route. I'd have thought Covid-19 would be a force majeur event but apparently not.
 
TUI to me are the M&S of the holiday world - if they go it will be a big shock - but ICI vanished and they were one of the biggest chemical producers in the World.
 
BoroFur said:
As I understood it airlines were running empty flights otherwise they'd lose the route. I'd have thought Covid-19 would be a force majeur event but apparently not.
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As for contracts, I think force majeure also only applies if there is someone to apply it to, as in a main contractor claiming force majeure against the client.

In this case, the airline has bought or leased the planes, and it's up to them to fill them, so they take on the risk of that (Covid then Russia is a big one off, to happen one after the other/ concurrently). The only client of the aircraft is the public, for not filling the seats, and it's not like the public would want to hand over extra cash. I don't think it's a bad idea the government (public funds) bailing out the airlines mind if it was treat as an investment, and they could cash that back in for more money at a later date, as there should be a good return on that in 5-10 years. It's a big, big problem for everyone if half the airlines go under though, and will ultimately lead to higher costs.

I suppose they might have been covered by some sort of insurance, but can't see anyone offering policies against pandemics, they would have cost a fortune.

Same with the lease contracts, I doubt they would include pandemics, as a lease company would not want to buy planes to lease, if it could end up with half of those back, doing nothing.
 
weststandwally said:
I generally use TUI and never had major delays I'd say you were just a touch unlucky with you experience,I'm a touch worried my holiday from Manchester next week is at risk as yesterdays' flight was cancelled to the same destination but I can see why airports are struggling to find staff for low paid seasonal jobs usually situated in remote locations.
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Received an email last night informing us they have cancelled our holiday due to depart on Wednesday,getting a full refund plus £200 in vouchers each to use against a future booking with TUI,they also mentioned in a footnote we can also claim compensation due to them cancelling less than 7 days prior to departure.Have now re booked with Jet2 for the same day to a different destination but also from Manchester.
 
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