Cogeur_le_Conq
Well-known member
Sorted Hoggy C.Good luck
I got the time off.
So that's summer sorted with a long weekend in Amsterdam and Christmas on the yag
I can't wait to hear the sound of Noddy Holder
Tories Existential Crisis looming
- Thread starter Ex Footy Legs
- Start date
I got the time off.
So that's summer sorted with a long weekend in Amsterdam and Christmas on the yag
I can't wait to hear the sound of Noddy Holder
LordStockton
Member
Well if the OP is a Labour supporter and he's calling the same people Labour need to win a GE, mugs and thick - one can easily see how his attitude to said people is offputting and may even alienate them to vote for another party
Zoophonic
Well-known member
Im not sure Ex Footy Legs is worried about the limited readership of this esteemed message board when he gives his political views and neither will it lose the Labour Party many voters.
Nero
Well-known member
I know, but sadly it’s the reality. 40 years of neoliberalism has turned Britain into a highly unequal society. Those who have done really well call the shots and buy political influence.
The only Politician to dare challenge the situation was Corbyn. See how that ended up.
It's symptomatic of the attitude that cost us EU membership. If you treat people with contempt they will hit back, even if costs them to do so.
Ex Footy Legs
Well-known member
Treat people with contempt ?
What are you talking about. The right wing media are extreme right wingers in charge of the Tory party told people something that was a falsehood ‘take back control’
They convinced millions of weak minded people in England that their issues stemmed from a ridiculous and dangerous EU membership and to save us, and our country we must vote leave.
That was how the people were treated with contempt, lack of respect, downright lies and all for their own version of ideology.
'weak minded people'?
Nero
Well-known member
Indeed. I know quite a lot of very smart people who voted to leave the EU. Most now realise their mistake. They are definitely not weak minded.
TeessideCleveland
Well-known member
Problem is... Is this a traditional Tory government? Or are they trying to get Reform voters? They are not pushing traditional Tory one nation values
No the element. that seem to have risen to prominence, are English Nationalists
The one nation time has passed. It’s not only here. The same thing is happening all over Europe.
Ex Footy Legs
Well-known member
Yes, for 2 reasons;
1, you are ultimately responsible for your actions or in this case, people’s inaction to go and gather facts and evidence before making a decision to vote leave
2, because millions didn’t, they allowed Cummings et al (Boris, Farage) into their psyche and create the kind of influence that stems from vulnerable individuals.
Zoophonic
Well-known member
I dont believe that. Views were too entrenched anyway to allow the contempt of a view comments to change minds. And in any case that was Brexit. We are talking about voting in a GE. Anybody who allows one or two throwaway comments by a stranger on a football messageboard to change their political allegiance would be very odd.
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
We have not had a traditional Tory government since John Major.
I think it is an existential crisis for the Tories. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Move left to appease some centre ground Tories and they hemorrhage votes to Reform. Move right to head off Reform and they'll hemorrhage votes to Labour.
The only way forward would be to show they've been massively successful over the last 10 years, when they've been disastrously bad.
I think it's likely the C&U party will fracture into several parties. Some of the further right will go to Reform, and some of the centre will become a One Nation Conservative party. In between will be a mixture of liberal Tories and green Tories and unionists.
Maybe Sunak will be the last Tory PM, I don't see how they come back from the brink.
The only way forward would be to show they've been massively successful over the last 10 years, when they've been disastrously bad.
I think it's likely the C&U party will fracture into several parties. Some of the further right will go to Reform, and some of the centre will become a One Nation Conservative party. In between will be a mixture of liberal Tories and green Tories and unionists.
Maybe Sunak will be the last Tory PM, I don't see how they come back from the brink.
SmallTown
Well-known member
I think its people who are still falling for the con.
As you say, there were probably smart people who voted leave back in the day. Being smart thiguh, they'll be able to workout how bad it is. I suspect the weak minded comment is because because brexit was built on, and is being defended by, some quite egregious lies. It takes a weak mind to fail for that many lies and not work at least one of them out
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
The biggest problem the Tories have isn’t this, but very similar. They don’t actually know who they are anymore.
You have those on the right, and far right, of the party who think Rishi is a centrist and want him to move further right. Then you have those in the centre right who think Rishi’s policies are going to the far right (Rwanda) and want him to move more to the centre.
It’s an impossible choice for Sunak and that is why he will fail. The likes of Brexit and the carry on surrounding it emboldened the fruit cakes like the ERG and now they hold the part to ransom. They are pulling right. In years gone by these nutters were ignored. Now the media have given them a platform they are slowly destroying the party.
It’s lovely to watch.
The city of London is the money laundering capital of the world. Millions..if not billions pass through there on its way to buildings in various places with only a plaque on the wall for an address, some with palm fringed beaches. Until 2013.
Gradually everyone, including a lot of the most vocal die hard leavers, recognise now it was total madness. This is one of the only reasons I can put it down too.
Nero
Well-known member
Politics built on lies has been normal for the last 14 years.
Austerity was a massive lie and con trick, that most media have kept quiet about. Tory voters, and especially the smart voters do not like to admit it.
Brexit was a lie just as big as austerity. Those pushing both are shameless.
Nero
Well-known member
It wasn’t just that. Anti-EU sentiment goes back to the early 90’s. The likes of Murdoch hated the EU as he had no influence. He tried to push Major to leave, but Major was a politician with a bit of wisdom, who didn’t act in his own interest like Johnson and Co.
Brexit is a myth created by people with wealth. Talk about rubbish often enough and people start believing it. I find it staggering still that people think Britain couldn’t create its own laws while in the EU. Or that Britain just had to accept EU directives with no input. Britain was one of the biggest contributors to loads of EU directives.
As nice as it would be if the tory party withered and disappeared I have to say I think there's a bit of wishful thinking/short memories going on here.
The different factions of their party really aren't all that ideological or unwilling to go along with each other.
Remember tory leaders like Cameron and May - who some one would probably call "one nation" now - were still happy to kill hundreds of thousands with austerity, campaign on reducing immigration to <100k, have the hostile environment vans patrolling streets, and hold the EU referendum in the first place.
And supposedly further right leaders like Johnson still happy to implement the furlough scheme during covid, campaign on building new hospitals, etc.
No policy matters to them anything like as much as money and power do.