* The Unofficial "Official" Boro v West Brom Match-Day Thread *

For me, it's not whether we keep faith in Carrick but whether he, Danks, Scott and Woodgate can all remain in place to take us through the next few years to see the benefits of what they're trying to do. I don't think Silvera, Rogers, Gilbert and Van den Berg will all be enough to get us to the playoffs right now, but maybe they can be brilliant players in a year or two. It feels like they're laying foundations, but we all crave success now. Last year was a hodgepodge team that was well coached, but now we are working on low budget and have lost the loan players who propelled us beyond mid-table. I just hope the non-playing staff have the staying power when bigger clubs will probably be interested in them. Football is all about hope and belief and we need a bit of that now. It's easy for fans to stay on board with a project when it's immediately successful like it was after October last year; it's harder when the wins aren't coming, but I still think we're headed in the right direction
 
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2nd goal.png

This is the start of the buildup to West Brom's second goal.

Latte Lath was blocking pass into the * player to begin with and then decides to press the centre back. This creates a simple pass into * player who can turn and drive with the ball and put howson (next to the ref) in no mans land as he has to come and meet him leave Swift (behind howson) open and in space to carry the ball.

What Latte Lath needs to do is continue to block that pass and force the ball across to the number 6 and then as move across as a team to force the ball into the right wing area.

I'm not blaming Latte Lath for the goal but clearly there is no coaching about how to press as a team and how to have a shape defensively that keeps other teams out of danger areas especially the middle of the pitch.
 
indeedido said:
How on earth do you make that out?
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Because of the style of play and the general trajectory of last season since the end of October. It counts for a lot in my book. If Carrick could spend £10-12m on the finished article, then he no doubt would, but we clearly can't. So he's trying to get the best out of the talent we can afford. Out of all the managers since McClaren (with the likes of Viduka, Hasselbaink and Southgate at his disposal) we have been playing attractive football. Carrick hasn't even been with us a full calendar year yet but the average level of performance has been much better than the Wilder and Warnock days. Not his fault we couldn't keep Giles, Archer, Ramsey and Akpom and it's not Gibson or Scott's either. We don't have parachute payments now and we are competing with some cash-rich teams in this division and above.
 
Jr. SkinnyLegs said:
View attachment 62670

This is the start of the buildup to West Brom's second goal.

Latte Lath was blocking pass into the * player to begin with and then decides to press the centre back. This creates a simple pass into * player who can turn and drive with the ball and put howson (next to the ref) in no mans land as he has to come and meet him leave Swift (behind howson) open and in space to carry the ball.

What Latte Lath needs to do is continue to block that pass and force the ball across to the number 6 and then as move across as a team to force the ball into the right wing area.

I'm not blaming Latte Lath for the goal but clearly there is no coaching about how to press as a team and how to have a shape defensively that keeps other teams out of danger areas especially the middle of the pitch.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t say clearly there is no coaching about when to press as a team, it’s more, the team haven’t had many training sessions together
 
Boro4life said:
Birmingham signed 9 players this summer they've got them firing why can't ours when we've spent more on them
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Because we've just lost our main creative outlet and our top two goalscorers. Steffan, Giles, Akpom and Archer were vital to the way our side played last season. And we weren't certain that two of those players wouldn't be here (Akpom and Giles) until after the season started. So we couldn't replace them until that was confirmed. Which means that the side has to gel after the season is underway.

Every side is different. Every challenge is different.
 
Jr. SkinnyLegs said:
View attachment 62670

This is the start of the buildup to West Brom's second goal.

Latte Lath was blocking pass into the * player to begin with and then decides to press the centre back. This creates a simple pass into * player who can turn and drive with the ball and put howson (next to the ref) in no mans land as he has to come and meet him leave Swift (behind howson) open and in space to carry the ball.

What Latte Lath needs to do is continue to block that pass and force the ball across to the number 6 and then as move across as a team to force the ball into the right wing area.

I'm not blaming Latte Lath for the goal but clearly there is no coaching about how to press as a team and how to have a shape defensively that keeps other teams out of danger areas especially the middle of the pitch.
Click to expand...
I've just watched that back and I don't think you've described that correctly.

1) Lath presses the defender (probably should have bent his run slightly to block the pass if nitpicking)

2) the defender makes the pass

3) Howson stays where he is and Rogers comes back to challenge the midfielder. Howson isn't drawn out of position at all. But he isn't really paying attention to what's behind him.

It's hard to say without seeing the whole pitch. But this photo is when the ball is played to Swift.

Screenshot_20230826_221602.jpg

I'd say there's a lack of communication here. And there's definitely a positional issue with Silvera, he should already be getting back to support the full back here. But he doesn't really run back until after Swift starts to run towards goal. When the ball reaches Swift, Smith is the best placed to close him down, but he can't because then there's an easy ball out to the winger. Someone should be screaming at Silvera to get back at this point. Because it's that space out wide that causes the problem here, it leaves Smith with no option but to hold his position which means that Swift knows he can slip the ball in to the winger if he's closed down or shoot if he isn't.
 
rbmfc1985 said:
Because we've just lost our main creative outlet and our top two goalscorers. Steffan, Giles, Akpom and Archer were vital to the way our side played last season. And we weren't certain that two of those players wouldn't be here (Akpom and Giles) until after the season started. So we couldn't replace them until that was confirmed. Which means that the side has to gel after the season is underway.

Every side is different. Every challenge is different.
Click to expand...
Akpom was always going to be sold
 
Brick_Tamland said:
For me, it's not whether we keep faith in Carrick but whether he, Danks, Scott and Woodgate can all remain in place to take us through the next few years to see the benefits of what they're trying to do. I don't think Silvera, Rogers, Gilbert and Van den Berg will all be enough to get us to the playoffs right now, but maybe they can be brilliant players in a year or two. It feels like they're laying foundations, but we all crave success now. Last year was a hodgepodge team that was well coached, but now we are working on low budget and have lost the loan players who propelled us beyond mid-table. I just hope the non-playing staff have the staying power when bigger clubs will probably be interested in them. Football is all about hope and belief and we need a bit of that now. It's easy for fans to stay on board with a project when it's immediately successful like it was after October last year; it's harder when the wins aren't coming, but I still think we're headed in the right direction
Click to expand...
I think part of the issue is that we're a big club at this level. It's whether Boro fans are prepared to be patient and accept that it's a long-term plan.

Brentford fans were happy to back their model and it eventually paid off for them, but most Boro fans will believe we should be competing for promotion every season.
 
It always makes me laugh when posters make excuses for our performances as if none of the other 23 teams in the division experience similar issues.

We are where we are because that's where we deserve to be.

We've got an exciting manager who himself was a class player and instead of backing him Gibson has decided to go shopping in the bargain basement.

21,000 season ticket holders mugged off once again.
 
rbmfc1985 said:
I've just watched that back and I don't think you've described that correctly.

1) Lath presses the defender (probably should have bent his run slightly to block the pass if nitpicking)

2) the defender makes the pass

3) Howson stays where he is and Rogers comes back to challenge the midfielder. Howson isn't drawn out of position at all. But he isn't really paying attention to what's behind him.

It's hard to say without seeing the whole pitch. But this photo is when the ball is played to Swift.

View attachment 62673

I'd say there's a lack of communication here. And there's definitely a positional issue with Silvera, he should already be getting back to support the full back here. But he doesn't really run back until after Swift starts to run towards goal. When the ball reaches Swift, Smith is the best placed to close him down, but he can't because then there's an easy ball out to the winger. Someone should be screaming at Silvera to get back at this point. Because it's that space out wide that causes the problem here, it leaves Smith with no option but to hold his position which means that Swift knows he can slip the ball in to the winger if he's closed down or shoot if he isn't.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with this analysis - Silvera switched off for a while and when he realised it was too late and he could not catch Swift if Swift drove forward. I noticed in the Brighton/WHU game - WHU would very quickly have 7 or 8 outfield players defending when Brighton were attacking i.e all the defence and midfield - When WHU were attacking they quickly got 5 players forward. In the above photo we have at least three players wrong side of the ball, that's too many. Maybe that's what Vincent Company meant when he said Boro were poor when not in possession.
 
Easterside_Red said:
It always makes me laugh when posters make excuses for our performances as if none of the other 23 teams in the division experience similar issues.

We are where we are because that's where we deserve to be.

We've got an exciting manager who himself was a class player and instead of backing him Gibson has decided to go shopping in the bargain basement.

21,000 season ticket holders mugged off once again.
Click to expand...
Gibson takes us all for fools
 
rbmfc1985 said:
I've just watched that back and I don't think you've described that correctly.

1) Lath presses the defender (probably should have bent his run slightly to block the pass if nitpicking)

2) the defender makes the pass

3) Howson stays where he is and Rogers comes back to challenge the midfielder. Howson isn't drawn out of position at all. But he isn't really paying attention to what's behind him.

It's hard to say without seeing the whole pitch. But this photo is when the ball is played to Swift.

I'd say there's a lack of communication here. And there's definitely a positional issue with Silvera, he should already be getting back to support the full back here. But he doesn't really run back until after Swift starts to run towards goal. When the ball reaches Swift, Smith is the best placed to close him down, but he can't because then there's an easy ball out to the winger. Someone should be screaming at Silvera to get back at this point. Because it's that space out wide that causes the problem here, it leaves Smith with no option but to hold his position which means that Swift knows he can slip the ball in to the winger if he's closed down or shoot if he isn't.
Click to expand...

It all starts at your 1) I'm basically saying don't press the defender as it has meant the defender has bypassed 3 players (rogers, lath and silvera) with one pass and then Silvera wouldn't have looked out of position at all and Rogers isn't creating any pressure on the player with the ball. Howson is in no mans land as they have created a 3 on 2 on the left side and as you say Smith is screwed once the ball is with Swift because it becomes a 2 on 1.

As a press you are trying to force the opposition into lower risk areas (wider areas) and keep it out central areas as they can turn and advance towards goal. If he held his position the ball would have move across to the right side defender and probably into the right wing position. Less danger.
 
Its really interesting but basically we are in a mid block. Its visible here

1693096119799.png

From Fifa - "The focus of a mid-block is to be compact and narrow collectively, denying the opposition space to play through the central channels of the pitch. The intention is often to force the opposition wide or backwards and to use their attempts to play centrally as opportunities to win the ball back"

Latte Lath presses on his own, which breaks the mid block and allows the team through the middle of the pitch.
 
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