The NHS contact-tracing app

hewielewie said:
That is not a proof. These are the proofs

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt, preponderance of the evidence and clear and convincing evidence.
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Nah Hewie, you have to prove 3 elements beyond a reasonable doubt. The reasonable doubt is the standard each of the elements must attain, not one of the elements you have to prove.

You may not agree with what I said, but you are making stuff up now.
 
Laughing said:
Nah Hewie, you have to prove 3 elements beyond a reasonable doubt. The reasonable doubt is the standard each of the elements must attain, not one of the elements you have to prove.

You may not agree with what I said, but you are making stuff up now.
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I'm no expert, but I have never heard a judge mention such a thing to a jury, nor have I ever heard a prosecutor talk about 3 proofs. But then this is just following the white rabbit down a hole.
 
Criminal act, criminal intent and concurrence, to use the non-latin, legal terms. i.e you have to prove a crime was committed, you have to prove that there was intent to commit the crime (though this one is fairly weak, you don't have to know you are committing a crime) and you have to prove that the person had the opportunity, or concurrence.

In other words, was there really a murder, did the defendent intend to commit the murder and do the two elements concur, i.e. was the person there at the time, and did they commit the murder.

Beyond reasonable doubt is the level to which you must prove the 3 elements.
 
BBC4 had a good documentary on last night regarding Fake News... & this thread sums up exactly the conclusions it came to: people who are of a mindset (one way or the other) presented with clear well presented & rational information from authoritative source.... will still stay with the 'information' that backs up their existing view.

So anyone that thinks the Gov is spying on them & can't be trusted - will not trust this App...

There is no point debating it as its tribal for the extremists / radicals & conspiracy theorists.... some who are still open minded & crucially able to think for themselves - will make up their own minds.

A good bit of scepticism is a healthy place to be, entrenched & closed minded is not.. it leads to paranoia - paranoid that is what they told us you were & it's getting proven to be true..





;-)
 
As I've said earlier, if the government obeys its own laws and the sinister Cummings and his freak show have nothing at all to do with it then it's fine by me, not that I count of course. As it is I don't trust any of them but I'm persuadable if certain (in my opinion) perfectly reasonable conditions are met.
 
Similar to the news about the app, what do people think about the latest news about state sponsored hacking groups attempting to attack medical and pharmaceutical companies and local government systems? Especially when some of the rumour countries involved are China, Russia and Iran?
 
Stocko said:
Yes, as all travellers to the UK will have to download the NHS app. 👍🏻
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That'll do wonders for the tourist trade. Hand your medical data over to Dominic Cummings and you can come in. Can't wait to see that as a ad campaign for the Tourist Board or whatever it calls itself nowadays.
 
FartingGnome said:
That'll do wonders for the tourist trade. Hand your medical data over to Dominic Cummings and you can come in. Can't wait to see that as a ad campaign for the Tourist Board or whatever it calls itself nowadays.
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Does the app store individual medical data?
 
Laughing said:
Nah Hewie, you have to prove 3 elements beyond a reasonable doubt. The reasonable doubt is the standard each of the elements must attain, not one of the elements you have to prove.

You may not agree with what I said, but you are making stuff up now.
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Elements or proofs? I think you are not understanding what you are saying. Oh and I am not making things up. You seem to have got the proofs and element's mixed up and then googled to find the correct definition
 
The API from Google and Apple won't allow you to book a test with the NHS I'd guess so it kind of defeats the object.

As I've said, I've been warning about privacy issues on here for years (see below) so in my opinion we have to make sure that digital rights groups pass this app so that we can use it for the benefit of public health. Yes there are questions about why we went on our own path and not as part of a European joint effort, why the contract was awarded to who it was etc. All those concerns are valid, but contact tracing and testing are vital to allowing us to move out of lockdown and to shape how we go to work and stop the virus running wild.

Just like the fact that we allowed 10 years of Tory government austerity to impact public services and make us more susceptible to the impact of this virus on our society we are now saddled with an app that we need to make work. This is our bed and we don't have the power or the time to go back and change it.

Let the digital rights advocates get a look at the app and see what they say about it because we need this app sooner rather than later.

dooderooni Posted on 21/03/2018 19:59

Facebook - YOU are the product

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The issue is not about people being idiots for using social media, it's about these companies modifying their business models to actively abuse the data that they are harvesting. Burying stuff in T&C's is maybe meeting a legal obligation, but it's not the same as being upfront and honest with what the platform is doing with all the data.

If CA hadn't been stung then we wouldn't be discussing all this now.

And don't get me started on the Snoopers Charter or the idiotic "if you've nothing to hide then you've no need to worry" arguments.

If anything, this might make people aware of the value of their privacy and fight all assaults on it, be they from private companies or governments.
 
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