Randy
Well-known member
If it's the same app I think this is I've been using it since nearly day 1.
The NHS contact-tracing app
- Thread starter kuepper
- Start date
As so often seems to happen with this virus, things are moving faster than might have been thought possible. According to the latest reports:
I haven't seen anything saying immunity should only last 6 months. I've seen various different estimates of how long it might last, with most of the virologists and epidemiologists I've seen, plumping for an immune response that would confer effective protection for something up to two years, on the basis that this appears to be the case for the two closest other coronaviruses, SARS & MERS.
I don't think we can say that "immunity" to the H1N1 flu strain that caused the Spanish Flu lasted forever. There were (and continue to be) outbreaks of the H1N1 flu. It's true that it hasn't ever killed people at the same rate as it did in 1918 and some of that may be due to people having a certain level of immunity but it could also be due to the fact that influenza viruses mutate quite rapidly and even though outbreaks of H1N1 flu continue to occur (the "Swine Flu" of 2009 was an H1N1 outbreak) later strains would not be 100% genetically identical to the 1918 version.
In Oz, we have a 3 stage plan to release restrictions. Most states have moved to Stage 1, with the harder hit states not implementing all the Stage 1 release measures yet.
There are a series of targets we need to hit in order to trigger a move to Stage 2, including 40% take up of the tracking app.
The Oz app works like others here have outlined - tracks any phones you've been in proximity of (2 metres, for 15 minutes). Data stored on your own phone. If you test positive you upload your data. The system then sends an alert to any phone that met the 2 metres, 15 minutes criteria. I believe that it tells you to go in and get tested, not just self isolate.
For the conspiracy theorists - if the data isn't uploaded until you hit the button, why not just download the app and then never hit the button, even if you test positive. In fact if you even decide to go in and be tested, you could delete the app first, so it couldn't be used. That way you've downloaded the app, so that people can get back to a more normal life, but never end up giving your oh so precious data away.
There are a series of targets we need to hit in order to trigger a move to Stage 2, including 40% take up of the tracking app.
The Oz app works like others here have outlined - tracks any phones you've been in proximity of (2 metres, for 15 minutes). Data stored on your own phone. If you test positive you upload your data. The system then sends an alert to any phone that met the 2 metres, 15 minutes criteria. I believe that it tells you to go in and get tested, not just self isolate.
For the conspiracy theorists - if the data isn't uploaded until you hit the button, why not just download the app and then never hit the button, even if you test positive. In fact if you even decide to go in and be tested, you could delete the app first, so it couldn't be used. That way you've downloaded the app, so that people can get back to a more normal life, but never end up giving your oh so precious data away.
Laughing
Well-known member
Otto62, you have missed the point the "conspiracy theorists" are making.
The tories have deliberately practiced cronyism with this app. Making money from misery, but hey we already knew that. There were other options available, Johnson chose to financially reward supporters, at what cost? But, and this is the point, if you cannot trust the government to do the right thing when folks are dying, how can you trust them to do the right thing with our data, precious or otherwise?
With the correct checks and balances in place I would have no problem downloading any app. In the event there are no checks and balances in place I will not be downloading it.
Nobody on this thread have suggested they wouldn't download an app they felt secure in using. They just don't trust this government.
To reduce your input to snide comments about "precious data" doesn't help the debate.
The tories have deliberately practiced cronyism with this app. Making money from misery, but hey we already knew that. There were other options available, Johnson chose to financially reward supporters, at what cost? But, and this is the point, if you cannot trust the government to do the right thing when folks are dying, how can you trust them to do the right thing with our data, precious or otherwise?
With the correct checks and balances in place I would have no problem downloading any app. In the event there are no checks and balances in place I will not be downloading it.
Nobody on this thread have suggested they wouldn't download an app they felt secure in using. They just don't trust this government.
To reduce your input to snide comments about "precious data" doesn't help the debate.
BoroBosco
Well-known member
What evidence do you have for this statement?
I understand the app has been developed by NHSX and despite a fair bit of searching the only company I can find referenced to have assisted is VMware Pivotal Labs. Do they have a connection to the tories or someone within government?
FartingGnome
Well-known member
https://privacyinternational.org/long-read/3752/coronavirus-tracking-uk-what-we-know-so-far
Interesting read, it's 3 days old (I think). Looks like it may have limited usefulness as things are.
Interesting read, it's 3 days old (I think). Looks like it may have limited usefulness as things are.
Laughing
Well-known member
Yes there is some evidence to suggest Marc Warnes company Faculty have a hand in this : https://bylinetimes.com/2020/05/06/...tica-will-configure-nhsx-contact-tracing-app/
The assertion that the data is private is also a bit iffy as what is proposed is a centralised cloud data store.
Both Apple and Google will not allow the app to be installed and function on their phones due to privacy issues. I could go on, but you get the picture.
For those interested search for uk tracing app scope creep and you will find some disturbing possibilities.
BoroBosco
Well-known member
So three Faculty employees, along with 18 other people from other outfits such as IBM and the Welcome Trust, were involved in the modeling by Oxford University to assess the effectiveness of using a contact tracing app in the fight against Covid-19. That's what you class as "Making money from misery "?
Did I read somewhere that Apple and Google were developing a rival app?
C
Cooper671
Guest
Correct they are so it’s within their interest not to allow it.
secondly it comes as no surprise it’s the bylinetimes that the poster has linked. It’s a crackpot conspiracy anti Tory website therefore perfect for the tin foiled hat brigade
secondly it comes as no surprise it’s the bylinetimes that the poster has linked. It’s a crackpot conspiracy anti Tory website therefore perfect for the tin foiled hat brigade
Laughing
Well-known member
Otto you are correct, but the policy around bluetooth has been the case for quite a few years so it is not related with commercial competition.
Laughing
Well-known member
Welcome to the debate cooper. Attack the content not the source! The facts are easily verifiable.
Your support of the argument that google and apple won't allow the british app on their phones is due to competition is nonsense too, The bluetooth restrictions have been in place since Apple and Google started selling into countries with poor privacy laws. Again really easily verifiable.
By all means join the debate, but come armed with some facts, at least that would make it interesting for us all.
Laughing
Well-known member
Yup BoroBosco because they were not the best people to provide the data analysis. This didn't, as far as I can see, go to tender. I am not even sure your response forms an argument, does it?
Laughing
Well-known member
I don't think Faculty are Bosco
from a good friend in the industry, tendering may have been a fruitless endeavour, even if given the opportunity he would not have submitted a tender regardless of how high profile and potentially lucrative the contract may have been. It was regarded by some to be a poisoned chalice on the basis that the fears of the public over both security and use of the information gathered outside the scope of an app being for just track, trace and test could be hugely damaging as a business to have this project in your portfolio
Laughing
Well-known member
Artie, that may be true, but you can mitigate this by allowing users to control how and when their data is shared. The current government app doesn't do that. It stores the data in a shared cloud infra.
As with most folks, if there are checks and balances in place on the collection and use of data I wouldn't have a problem. As with most things in this pandemic the government are reactionary and nothing seems very well planned.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
The really scary thing is that people want Google and apple to have their data rather than "the government".
Laughing
Well-known member
Sherrif that is not what happens with google or apple. You can select to have the data stored only on your phone.
You can look at this any way you want, obviously. I am technology architect so I do this stuff everyday for a living. To comply in Europe with GDPR your data can only be gathered, and stored for the time it is required, and with your permission. Neither can it cross geographical boundries.
Storing our movements in a coud infrastructure raises some serious security issues. Yes we will have to opt in, but what will be done with our data? I don't know, and neither does anyone else.