sherlock
Well-known member
Wow, you'll be amazed when you hear about the vote result that took us out of the EU.......
Supreme Court ruling on Scot ref - Scottish govt does NOT have right to hold another referendum
- Thread starter Jedi boro
- Start date
Its a majority.
Happened with Brexit sadly.
If I was a Scot I'd want full independance.
Spot on.
There is currently no democratic mandate for Scotland to be ruled by Westminister..... by any Party.
The only justification or basis for keeping them in the Union is that they were conquered.
It's an agrument that has no relevance in today's society.
Nope. What you have written is in fact nonsense. Scotland didn't vote to remain. We didn't vote in constituencies never mind as individual countries. We voted as a single nation where every vote counted equally. Scotland were dragged out in the exact same way every remain voter was dragged out. This is what happened:
1. Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.
2. The UK voted to leave the EU.
I agree with the bit in bold. What I don't agree with is the timeframe. With hindsight there should have been more rules when the referendum happened to remove this debate, specifically "if Remain wins there will be no repeat of the referendum for x years unless x, y or z conditions are met" but that's another failure from the politicians.
The justification is that they voted to remain in the UK fairly recently. You can't change your mind every time the people you have decided to be in charge do something you don't like. It's too big a question to repeat so frequently.
sherlock
Well-known member
That is quite literally what we do every 5 years with a general election.
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Again another false narrative
The United Kingdom was Scotlands Idea because they were pennyless after empire failed and came crawling to us to bail them out.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
It's a general election. It's not dismantling an entire country! And it is not irreversible.
And as a democracy we are respecting the votes of those people who voted. And the terms under which they voted. Namely a five year parliament.
Democracy is about respecting results even if they are not in your favour. It's worrysome how both those on the right and on the left are so disrespectful of this.
And thats your justification for maintaining the Union.
But this goes against one of the fundamental principles of our political system - i.e. that the current government can't constrain a future government.
Imagine if the tories could pass laws now that make it so a Starmer Labour government has to keep doing all the same things like sending migrants to Rwanda etc.
I think this is a pointless bit of pedantry. The votes were counted in constituencies so we can see the totals for an area like Scotland. You know what people are getting at. There's a lot more remainers than leavers there.
Jedi boro
Well-known member
We were in the EU fully for about 20 years as it didn’t really begin until 1992 in any meaningful manner. As we were operating well before the EU ( note I say eu not EC) quite successfully.
The uk has been around for well over 300 years can you imagine the ramifications of dismantling all that where do you even begin.
The ok is the longest surging joint nation so to break it up would be almost impossible.
The uk has been around for well over 300 years can you imagine the ramifications of dismantling all that where do you even begin.
The ok is the longest surging joint nation so to break it up would be almost impossible.
I think that's a bit unfair. What do you actually expect the people who want an independent Scotland to do after 2014? Just disappear out of existance? It's not like anyones taken up arms or anything for Scottish independence or UK EU membership. I think it's very harsh to look at people exploring what legal options they have and to keep campaigning for their beliefs and say that makes them anti-democratic.
TeaCider
Well-known member
Didn't we have the Queen of Scots in a prison cell at the time though?
Just the 120+ years out there.
That bit only had to be advisory. Then instead of having "once in a generation" banded about because someone said it one time they can point to the terms of the creation of the referendum for something more solid (but not set in law).
That's irrelevant. Scotland is part of the UK. The UK voted to remain. London also voted remain (as did many other regions) but they won't have an independence referendum either.
It also doesn't say anything about what their priorities are. Not all EU remainers in Scotland will be UK remainers. There will be people that would prefer to be in the UK inside the EU than be outside the EU but would prefer either option to being outside the UK.
The fact is that Scotland voted to remain in the UK and go along with any decision that the UK makes. Whether that is Brexit, electing Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Rishi Sunak or sending people to Rwanda is irrelevant. They wanted to remain a part of the UK and all that entails.
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Brave heart has a lot to answer for
And no it not a joke
It sewed a false narrative that continues to this day that Scotland were a conquered nation by the evil English when the reality was far different.
The SNP support is directly linked to the release of this movie.
And no it not a joke
What Braveheart did for Scottish Independence - Medievalists.net
Twenty years ago support for Scottish independence was confined to a small minority - but the release of the film Braveheart in the spring of 1995 changed their fortunes.
www.medievalists.net
It sewed a false narrative that continues to this day that Scotland were a conquered nation by the evil English when the reality was far different.
The SNP support is directly linked to the release of this movie.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
What do I expect them to do? It's a bit of an odd question. I expect them to honour the result of the referendum. Just as any democratic vote should be respected. If you don't do that then you don't live in a democracy. That goes for Nicola sturgeon as much as Donald trump.
