Supreme Court ruling on Scot ref - Scottish govt does NOT have right to hold another referendum

Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Then why the fear of a referendum?
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Divisive and potentially devastating in a time where our country is already struggling as is.

Scottish independence would weaken both the remnants of the UK and Scotland itself.

It's also clear that another No vote doesn't solve the issue either, as was clear from 2014.
The agitation for a 2nd referendum started before Brexit.

The UK has nothing to gain and a lot to lose, why risk it when there's not even a majority in favour of it in the first place?

Cameron twice opened that can of worms with referendums and we've been suffering for it since.
 
The reason I would say that there hasn't been enough time since the last referendum is that we haven't even changed the governing political party in that time. Are the people that have been unhappy with UK (or England) ruling them been unhappy with that arrangement or just unhappy with the Tories? People under 35 will have spent almost their entire working life with a Tory government. I would say that I am not happy with our government in that time as well but I haven't been an adult and seen what another party does while in government. 10 years seems like a long time but it's a very short time in politics. There shouldn't be major decisions like joining/rejoining unions without a significant passing of time.
 
TeaCider said:
Divisive and potentially devastating in a time where our country is already struggling as is.

Scottish independence would weaken both the remnants of the UK and Scotland itself.

It's also clear that another No vote doesn't solve the issue either, as was clear from 2014.
The agitation for a 2nd referendum started before Brexit.

The UK has nothing to gain and a lot to lose, why risk it when there's not even a majority in favour of it in the first place?

Cameron twice opened that can of worms with referendums and we've been suffering for it since.
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But why should the Scots suffer further if there's another option for them?

If they think they'll be better off without the other countries of the union why should thar choice be suppressed?
 
Nano said:
The reason I would say that there hasn't been enough time since the last referendum is that we haven't even changed the governing political party in that time. Are the people that have been unhappy with UK (or England) ruling them been unhappy with that arrangement or just unhappy with the Tories? People under 35 will have spent almost their entire working life with a Tory government. I would say that I am not happy with our government in that time as well but I haven't been an adult and seen what another party does while in government. 10 years seems like a long time but it's a very short time in politics. There shouldn't be major decisions like joining/rejoining unions without a significant passing of time.
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There's been enormous change since the last referendum, we're a completely different nation now.
 
I think that Westminster will probably eventually have to agree to a 2nd referendum if there's a majority of the vote share supporting it, that's not the case right now.
 
TeaCider said:
Again.

The polling and voting shows that the majority oppose independence.
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Completely missing the point.

The United Kingdom can not be considered a voluntary union of nations if one of the parties is essentially a prisoner who can't consider leaving without permission.

Anything else is just superfluous to the discussion.

You can't justify it by saying why the union needs to stay, that's like telling one spouse that they can't leave a marriage without the permission of the other.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Then why the fear of referendum, which is what it's looking increasingly like?
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Not at all it’s the fact that she agreed to

An independence referendum was first held on 18 September 2014, with 55% voting "No" to independence. The Scottish Government stated in its white paper for independence that voting Yes was a "once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation".

Once in a generation ???
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
There's been enormous change since the last referendum, we're a completely different nation now.
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No, we're not really. If we spend the next 10 years under a Labour government and things change again (in the other way) then there won't be a huge difference from where we were when the referendum was taken. I know Brexit is a fundamental difference but we're not far into the implementation enough to say whether that has changed the country. We're still in the period where the change is having short-term effects. The long-term might be very different.

Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Then why the fear of referendum, which is what it's looking increasingly like?
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I am not against Scotland independence if it is what they want. I am against re-running referenda until you get the result you want. Another referendum now is disrespectful to the people that voted in the last one (on both sides of the debate). Such big questions need time to play out because they are not short-term decisions.
 
Nano said:
No, we're not really. If we spend the next 10 years under a Labour government and things change again (in the other way) then there won't be a huge difference from where we were when the referendum was taken. I know Brexit is a fundamental difference but we're not far into the implementation enough to say whether that has changed the country. We're still in the period where the change is having short-term effects. The long-term might be very different.


I am not against Scotland independence if it is what they want. I am against re-running referenda until you get the result you want. Another referendum now is disrespectful to the people that voted in the last one (on both sides of the debate). Such big questions need time to play out because they are not short-term decisions.
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Nonsense.

There was a referendum, Scotland voted to remain. OK.

There was then a Brexit referendum where Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. As a result of votes elsewhere in the UK they were essentially dragged out of the EU against their will. That changes everything.

There should be no opposition to the Scottish people having another vote on whether to now stay in a UK that sits outside of the EU.
 
Does anyone think that 51%/49% is sufficient reason to leave a 400 year Union? That is about the majority that SNP can hope for.
if it was 65%/35% then yes, that is a clear majority. Would SNP agree to a referendum on those terms I wonder?
 
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