Stop Posting the Conspiracy Rubbish

dooderooni said:
That might be a fact and I might be one of the 99.93% who won't die, but for those who will lose their life to this highly infectious disease, myself and the other 99.93% are potential killers.
That's the danger of stats, they can take the focus away from the most important points.
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Not really what this thread is about though is it? It isn't a conspiracy theory to say that 0.07% of the population have died of this, with an average age of 82 (higher than UK life expectancy). Surely that's all that's being contested. Or are we saying now that facts shouldn't be shared in case they fall into the 'wrong' hands?
 
I’ve noticed quite a few scientists are giving up arguing with the deniers on twitter. Imagine everything you have studied and worked towards in life being questioned by a bunch of Karens
 
Get your mind round Villa Park not being big enough to seat the number of people who have died so far.
By the end of next month the number will outgrow The Etihad capacity. Christ knows what it will be by Xmas.

We will get it under control again, but so much quicker if everybody behaves responsibly.
 
atypical_boro said:
Not really what this thread is about though is it? It isn't a conspiracy theory to say that 0.07% of the population have died of this, with an average age of 82 (higher than UK life expectancy). Surely that's all that's being contested. Or are we saying now that facts shouldn't be shared in case they fall into the 'wrong' hands?
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I'm sure you can see how such figures could be bent into, if not a full blown conspiracy theory, at least a stepping stone towards one.
For those who are suspicious of the pandemic and how effective a lockdown or other measures might be, its certainly an avenue towards downplaying the virus at least.
It's the sort of thing Trump would use to excuse his handling of the pandemic and I'd say there are sufficient numbers of people in the UK who are already sufficiently fatigued by the virus that they'd be open to conspiracies derived from such figures.
I'm just trying to add some necessary context in the hope that it might give pause to someone who would read such figures in isolation and forget about the unintended consequences of relaxing their diligence in stopping the spread.
 
dooderooni said:
I'm sure you can see how such figures could be bent into, if not a full blown conspiracy theory, at least a stepping stone towards one.
For those who are suspicious of the pandemic and how effective a lockdown or other measures might be, its certainly an avenue towards downplaying the virus at least.
It's the sort of thing Trump would use to excuse his handling of the pandemic and I'd say there are sufficient numbers of people in the UK who are already sufficiently fatigued by the virus that they'd be open to conspiracies derived from such figures.
I'm just trying to add some necessary context in the hope that it might give pause to someone who would read such figures in isolation and forget about the unintended consequences of relaxing their diligence in stopping the spread.
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Indeed, but people are going to challenge new laws and regulations, whatever the scenario, and using whatever means they see fit, we can't stop it. I don't see it fundamentally as a bad thing and I think it needs to happen to ensure the government don't take more than they are entitled to in that regard. Conspiracy theories? You can't stop those either, but I haven't seen any on these pages and I'm pretty sure that's what the OP seemed to be suggesting he was sick of.
 
atypical_boro said:
Indeed, but people are going to challenge new laws and regulations, whatever the scenario, and using whatever means they see fit, we can't stop it. I don't see it fundamentally as a bad thing and I think it needs to happen to ensure the government don't take more than they are entitled to in that regard. Conspiracy theories? You can't stop those either, but I haven't seen any on these pages and I'm pretty sure that's what the OP seemed to be suggesting he was sick of.
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No conspiracy theories... Just opinions that differ and therefore appear to be viewed as being a conspiracy 🤷🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️
 
dooderooni said:
I'm sure you can see how such figures could be bent into, if not a full blown conspiracy theory, at least a stepping stone towards one.
For those who are suspicious of the pandemic and how effective a lockdown or other measures might be, its certainly an avenue towards downplaying the virus at least.
It's the sort of thing Trump would use to excuse his handling of the pandemic and I'd say there are sufficient numbers of people in the UK who are already sufficiently fatigued by the virus that they'd be open to conspiracies derived from such figures.
I'm just trying to add some necessary context in the hope that it might give pause to someone who would read such figures in isolation and forget about the unintended consequences of relaxing their diligence in stopping the spread.
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It’s a fact that it’s killed around 0.07 of the uk population at an average age of 82 based on government figures. It’s a fact that a further lockdown will create untold misery and loss of life from illnesses that WILL kill people of all age groups such as untreated cancers, depression, heart attacks and strokes. That is what people should derive from the figures not conspiracy theories or whatever Trump may or may not be up to because it is staring us squarely in the face.
 
Jimstewart said:
It’s a fact that it’s killed around 0.07 of the uk population at an average age of 82 based on government figures. It’s a fact that a further lockdown will create untold misery and loss of life from illnesses that WILL kill people of all age groups such as untreated cancers, depression, heart attacks and strokes. That is what people should derive from the figures not conspiracy theories or whatever Trump may or may not be up to because it is staring us squarely in the face.
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are you suggesting we send cancer patients with weak immune systems to hospital (where the lurgy is) for treatment?

this is why if we stick together, keep transmission low, treatment can continue. That is going out the window again fast.
 
Is the Bus driver called Les Longstaff by any chance? He turns up on all the local social media pages thinking he knows more than the experts. He manages the largest disco bus firm in the north east which puts him on par with Witty, Vallance and Van Tam.
 
its so weird that covid conspiracy theorists also think the world is flat, 911 was a set up by George Bush, the moon landings were fake, JFK assassination was staged...…. the list goes on. :unsure:
 
Jimstewart said:
It’s a fact that a further lockdown will create untold misery and loss of life from illnesses that WILL kill people of all age groups such as untreated cancers, depression, heart attacks and strokes.
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No, that is supposition.

Leaving aside the undoubted threat of mental illness for the moment, cancers, heart attacks and strokes continue to be treated as priority because intensive care beds are available. Mental Health Care requires different provision and although the incidence of mental health problems will be exacerbated by the continuation of isolation and job loss it might be that we can help people who suffering in other ways (e.g. better security for people losing their jobs, mortgage funding and other financial aid perhaps)
 
atypical_boro said:
Not really what this thread is about though is it? It isn't a conspiracy theory to say that 0.07% of the population have died of this, with an average age of 82 (higher than UK life expectancy). Surely that's all that's being contested. Or are we saying now that facts shouldn't be shared in case they fall into the 'wrong' hands?
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But this kind of post seems to suggest it ONLY affects 0.7% and only impacts those 82 or higher or hats what it implies and that’s just not true.

Fact anyone can catch it
Fact anyone can die from it

Anything else doesn’t really matter
 
zorro_mfc said:
But this kind of post seems to suggest it ONLY affects 0.7% and only impacts those 82 or higher or hats what it implies and that’s just not true.

Fact anyone can catch it
Fact anyone can die from it

Anything else doesn’t really matter
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It doesn't suggest that at all, it really doesn't.

0.07% of the population have died
Average age of death is 82

There is absolutely zero intimation of anything else in those two statements.
 
zorro_mfc said:
But this kind of post seems to suggest it ONLY affects 0.7% and only impacts those 82 or higher or hats what it implies and that’s just not true.

Fact anyone can catch it
Fact anyone can die from it

Anything else doesn’t really matter
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Indeed, and many of those that have had it seem to have reasonably long issues which is now going to creat more work for the NHS.
 
rob_fmttm said:
Can people stop posting this conspiracy rubbish on here.
Thousands have died, thousands more have been very sick and thousands more would perish if we did not respect this pandemic - and that is just in this country.
We are all sick of the way our lives have been constrained and many of us are appalled at the poor handling but it is all too real.
So stop posting this stuff. Go and ask someone working at your local hospital about the real toll. Because sadly lots and lots of people are continuing to pay the ultimate price. Have some respect for them and their families.
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What conspiracy rubbish?

People are debating and putting their point across from both sides but I don't see anyone on here suggesting that SARs-CoV-2 is not a real virus.

"Go ask someone working at your local hospital about the real toll" - I do, fairly often. I have friends who are doctors and consultants on the front line in major northern hospitals, including in the north east.

It is perfectly reasonable to question and debate and I will continue to do so (often I have linked directly to source data) when I see fundamental science being misrepresented. Some points below:
  • Until recently 90% of the population claimed to be still susceptible - yes, lets base everything on antibodies and not even acknowledge the rest of the immune system. I will always challenge this nonsense. There are other forms of immunity. If there were not we'd have been picking the bodies out of the streets in March before we'd put any restrictions in place. We didn't use the additional capacity of the Nightingale hospitals.
  • PCR testing - perfectly reasonable to question the validity of this in certain situations, particularly in "mass testing" which is then being used to 'model' this epidemic (very important: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cycle-threshold-ct-in-sars-cov-2-rt-pcr)
  • 'Modeling' based solely on maths seemingly without even acknowledging the work of Edgar Hope Simpson. This has led to models of "lockdown" and "release cycles" which continue over summer when this virus is not transmitted in European countries! I have shown the data from this epidemic. This is the 'modeling' which is actually guiding this countries response. Bonkers.
  • Masks - there is a debate to be had and don't forget we were not advised to wear them earlier in the year. I am not an "anti-masker", perhaps they could play role.
  • Vaccines: I'm not an "anti-vaxer". They are excellent for certain diseases. Will they be needed for this virus? Will it it be effective? Is it going to be safe given the amount of time it is being rushed through in? Perfectly reasonable questions in my view.
  • Herd immunity: We have a health secretary who stands up in parliament and states that herd immunity has never ended an epidemic/pandemic. I have no words.
  • The media: Utterly shameful. Pretty much all of it.
  • Seasonality: A nasty virus it is but it has followed the seasonal patterns expected in europe, south america, and the US (again I've shown the graphs). If this had been understood by SAGE (with a lack of virologists and immunologists) then a much more measured and tailored response could have been used. Seasonality has huge implications for vast countries like the US.
My posts back in Feb/March very very much of the view that we should have "locked down" earlier, that despite Ferguson's previous track record he was correct, and that we had a large susceptible population. Just a little bit of research into the fundamentals completely changed my view and I am happy to admit that.
 
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