Stop Posting the Conspiracy Rubbish

[Alvez_48]

It's the fear crew that are sounding more and more like they're wearing tin foil.

@Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants can't believe that even though he's a relative statistical anomaly (given his claims of being fit healthy and below the age of 40) most people by far most people in his age category literally have no symptoms or very mild symptoms. It's backed up by so much data yet he pops on here to tell us all how bad it is.

We have people suggesting posting facts is tantamount to conspiracy theories, it's ridiculous.

Here are some more facts:-

 

[Juninho10]

Well this thread adhered to the title and Robs request.....

 

[JM14]

I'm just relaying what we were told. First lockdown was the flatten the curve and protect the NHS (bizzare I know). It was obvious in the Spring that this winter would be a tough one with flu season as normal plus the possibility that covid would still be around then. Well Winter is here now and flu season is kicking off and covid is still here.
If I was as woefully inept as those in charge of the NHS at preparation I would be given my p45.

Yes but specifically what can they do? They have a capacity and when that is met people are essentially ****ed. You cant change that in 4 months

 

[JM14]

It's the fear crew that are sounding more and more like they're wearing tin foil.

@Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants can't believe that even though he's a relative statistical anomaly (given his claims of being fit healthy and below the age of 40) most people by far most people in his age category literally have no symptoms or very mild symptoms. It's backed up by so much data yet he pops on here to tell us all how bad it is.

We have people suggesting posting facts is tantamount to conspiracy theories, it's ridiculous.

Here are some more facts:-

View attachment 8161

I really dont get why you keep trying to push that its only older people that are impacted by this, I think this is pretty clear to everyone that they are certainly at the highest risk. Doesnt it then make it more important to reduce this as much as possible knowing how deadly this is for the elderly? Especially going into the winter months

 

[1finny]

I really dont get why you keep trying to push that its only older people that are impacted by this, I think this is pretty clear to everyone that they are certainly at the highest risk. Doesnt it then make it more important to reduce this as much as possible knowing how deadly this is for the elderly? Especially going into the winter months

It’s clearly not older people only. I don’t think anyone is saying that.
It sounds pretty horrible for some younger folk.

The average age of someone dying from Covid is 82 though.

 

[ForssAwakens]

Are facts ok? Like the fact that the virus has killed 0.07 percent of the uk population at an average age of 82?

can you analyse it and give the context as well. Would be most helpful

 

[Alvez_48]

I really dont get why you keep trying to push that its only older people that are impacted by this, I think this is pretty clear to everyone that they are certainly at the highest risk. Doesnt it then make it more important to reduce this as much as possible knowing how deadly this is for the elderly? Especially going into the winter months

I'm not pushing anything but data and proportion...

Someone for instance claimed (might have been you actually) that it's not having an impact on cancer care.
Yet research shows that it's believed 40,000 cancer cases have been missed already due to lack of screening.

Without discussion and using facts and data there can not be critical thinking.

 

[JM14]

I'm not pushing anything but data and proportion...

Someone for instance claimed (might have been you actually) that it's not having an impact on cancer care.
Yet research shows that it's believed 40,000 cancer cases have been missed already due to lack of screening.

Without discussion and using facts and data there can not be critical thinking.

Its not that we have just decided that we will only treat covid and ignore everything else though.

The NHS is already close to capacity in some trusts around the winter months, add to that covid is taking away staff from ICU wards for treatment, NHS staff will also be having to self isolate, sickness will be up etc, so they dont have enough staff to complete their routine treatments inc cancer treatments.

So basically the more widespread that covid is among the population, the more of these treatments will inevitably be cancelled leading to more deaths long term. Its not that we have locked down and cancelled treatments just to keep people in their homes.

I know you are against lockdown and so am I in this format, but surely if 40,000 cancer cases have already been missed then it shows that stronger action is clearly needed to stop the spread of covid?

 

[Randy]

Nope, I’m afraid we are going to completely ignore his work and data in favour of non peer reviewed scaremongering ‘96k per day currently’ disproven tosh from ICL because a couple of posters on here wrote him off.

Honestly, it’s like some people are desperate to believe the worst case scenarios peddled by the media and just completely ignore all other reasonable measurements or the actual evidence of what is happening.


There seems to have been a bizarre phenomenon appear during this pandemic, where some people would appear to want the worst case scenarios to play out simply so they can say ‘see, told you so!’ to anybody who actually looks at more sources of data and listens to what all sides of the scientific community have to say and tries to get a fuller picture, rather than just swallowing all the media headlines.

These paragraphs are absolutely spot on.

 

[Alvez_48]

I simply disagree JM14 the decisions taken to scale back the NHS were political in March as NHS chiefs confirmed as much in May.

I completely agree though that the NHS has been drained of its life in the past 10 years and the Tories are shameful in doing that.

 

[ForssAwakens]

I'm not pushing anything but data and proportion...

Someone for instance claimed (might have been you actually) that it's not having an impact on cancer care.
Yet research shows that it's believed 40,000 cancer cases have been missed already due to lack of screening.

Without discussion and using facts and data there can not be critical thinking.

It can not be critical thinking if you show bias to one set of data to the other neither. You should try and balance and make a point on a number of possible things the data suggest if you would like to across as critical thinking.

ultimately i feel you use confirmation bias when analysing data.

 

[Jimstewart]

can you analyse it and give the context as well. Would be most helpful

I can analyse that 45k is around 0.07 percent of the uk population if that’s helpful enough. And the average age of death in the uk is 82 is beyond dispute .
Imagine if someone had told you this ridiculous tale about a year ago. Government, the scientific community and health officials get wind of a disease that could well come our way. They know enough about it to tell us that it’s deadly to the elderly and people already diagnosed with certain illnesses. They also tell us it’s fairly mild in the majority of cases and so mild in some that no symptoms present at all. They have around two to three months to plan so they do the following.
Lock everyone down for three months regardless of age or health circumstances. Tell them to stay at home and feck about painting their fences whilst the taxpayer funds their wages to the tune of 80 percent.
Spend billions on regional super hospitals and give them a nice fluffy name like nightingale and then put hardly a soul in them whilst claiming the real hospitals can’t cope with demand.
Cut routine operations and screenings in the NHS giving rise to undetected cancers which will undoubtably kill many thousands.
Create a wave of mental health issues which will put further strain on the NHS that they claim to be protecting.
Create mass unemployment and bankruptcies thereby adding billions to the benefits bill and reducing tax and national insurance revenues that go to fund the NHS that they claim to be protecting.
Give LTD companies and freelancers taxpayer backed loans via the banks called bounce back loans. As the government and HMRC are bringing in IR 35 in a matter of months many of these companies will not be in existence to repay thereby increasing the burden on the taxpayer.
Get the old school tie out and give Churchill’s grandson Rupert the job of tracing the infectious via his well remunerated job at Serco. He hasn’t done too clever.
Then after the mamouth disaster of all of the above they go and repeat the trick in November.
Imagine that. Analyse that. Contextualise it if you want but that’s what happened and is happening again.

 

[ForssAwakens]

I can analyse that 45k is around 0.07 percent of the uk population if that’s helpful enough. And the average age of death in the uk is 82 is beyond dispute .
Imagine if someone had told you this ridiculous tale about a year ago. Government, the scientific community and health officials get wind of a disease that could well come our way. They know enough about it to tell us that it’s deadly to the elderly and people already diagnosed with certain illnesses. They also tell us it’s fairly mild in the majority of cases and so mild in some that no symptoms present at all. They have around two to three months to plan so they do the following.
Lock everyone down for three months regardless of age or health circumstances. Tell them to stay at home and feck about painting their fences whilst the taxpayer funds their wages to the tune of 80 percent.
Spend billions on regional super hospitals and give them a nice fluffy name like nightingale and then put hardly a soul in them whilst claiming the real hospitals can’t cope with demand.
Cut routine operations and screenings in the NHS giving rise to undetected cancers which will undoubtably kill many thousands.
Create a wave of mental health issues which will put further strain on the NHS that they claim to be protecting.
Create mass unemployment and bankruptcies thereby adding billions to the benefits bill and reducing tax and national insurance revenues that go to fund the NHS that they claim to be protecting.
Give LTD companies and freelancers taxpayer backed loans via the banks called bounce back loans. As the government and HMRC are bringing in IR 35 in a matter of months many of these companies will not be in existence to repay thereby increasing the burden on the taxpayer.
Get the old school tie out and give Churchill’s grandson Rupert the job of tracing the infectious via his well remunerated job at Serco. He hasn’t done too clever.
Then after the mamouth disaster of all of the above they go and repeat the trick in November.
Imagine that. Analyse that. Contextualise it if you want but that’s what happened and is happening again.

Okay so what your saying is just let the virus run riot then? I that what you propose based on what you’ve said?

see I analyse it as follows. 45k people died, basically from a month of letting it run Til the 23rd March

the nhs got to capacity in some places, and would be overwhelmed if we gave people in care homes proper treatment.

i do agree about the nightingales they are a gimmick

If we had let the virus run like you seem to suggest the nhs would have overran capacity so you would still close some care facilities down and you would still have the issues about missed screenings

 

[Jimstewart]

Okay so what your saying is just let the virus run riot then? I that what you propose based on what you’ve said?

see I analyse it as follows. 45k people died, basically from a month of letting it run Til the 23rd March

the nhs got to capacity in some places, and would be overwhelmed if we gave people in care homes proper treatment.

i do agree about the nightingales they are a gimmick

If we had let the virus run like you seem to suggest the nhs would have overran capacity so you would still close some care facilities down and you would still have the issues about missed screenings

I stand to be corrected here but the 45k death toll are those recorded within 28 days of a positive test. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that a fair percentage of that 45 k will actually have of died of something else within that timeframe.
As far as letting the virus run riot I never said that. It’s obvious who needs to be shielded. The ill and the elderly. The focus should be on protecting those most at risk God knows we have enough stats and evidence to show us who they are.
And while we are on about an illness running riot just wait until next year when the dole q is around the block and bankruptcies are stacked high. The mental health issues people of all ages not just the old and ill will be enormous. They are letting unemployment run wild, cancer run wild loneliness run wild and financial ruin for thousands run wild and the price will still be being paid long after this admittedly horrible disease to a small percentage of us is under control.

 

[Tommy_Dickfingers]

Something thats puzzled me is that they were talking of a worst case scenario of 4k deaths per day iirc.

Even if the death rate was 2% that would mean the cases would have to hit 200k per day if my maths is correct.

Anyway, the government will lock us down in one form or another until March in my opinion and then the trees will blossom and the flowers will bloom which will be handy as that's all millions will have to look forward to.

 

[bear66]

I stand to be corrected here but the 45k death toll are those recorded within 28 days of a positive test. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that a fair percentage of that 45 k will actually have of died of something else within that timeframe.
As far as letting the virus run riot I never said that. It’s obvious who needs to be shielded. The ill and the elderly. The focus should be on protecting those most at risk God knows we have enough stats and evidence to show us who they are.
And while we are on about an illness running riot just wait until next year when the dole q is around the block and bankruptcies are stacked high. The mental health issues people of all ages not just the old and ill will be enormous. They are letting unemployment run wild, cancer run wild loneliness run wild and financial ruin for thousands run wild and the price will still be being paid long after this admittedly horrible disease to a small percentage of us is under control.

95% of people who have had a positive test within 28 days are registered as dying of Covid-19.

89,000 people over 65 have been admitted to hospital with covid-19; 49,000 people under 65 have been admitted to hospital with covid-19.

87% of deaths are over 65 but 35% of hospitalisations are under 65.

 

[Chris_Boro]

I stand to be corrected here but the 45k death toll are those recorded within 28 days of a positive test. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that a fair percentage of that 45 k will actually have of died of something else within that timeframe.
As far as letting the virus run riot I never said that. It’s obvious who needs to be shielded. The ill and the elderly. The focus should be on protecting those most at risk God knows we have enough stats and evidence to show us who they are.
And while we are on about an illness running riot just wait until next year when the dole q is around the block and bankruptcies are stacked high. The mental health issues people of all ages not just the old and ill will be enormous. They are letting unemployment run wild, cancer run wild loneliness run wild and financial ruin for thousands run wild and the price will still be being paid long after this admittedly horrible disease to a small percentage of us is under control.

You simply cannot just shield the ill and vulnerable without completely isolating them from their partners, their carers, their children, the whole world? For how long? When do you stop? Do care home workers live in the care homes indefinitely?

What about the mental health of those people watching on as everyone else gets on with spreading the virus amongst themselves with no end in sight?

Everyone has a part to play in fighting this virus, anyone who just suggests locking away millions of people with not even a vague suggestion on how this could be achieved in practice need to look outside their own boxed in view of the world.

 

[Jimstewart]

95% of people who have had a positive test within 28 days are registered as dying of Covid-19.

89,000 people over 65 have been admitted to hospital with covid-19; 49,000 people under 65 have been admitted to hospital with covid-19.

87% of deaths are over 65 but 35% of hospitalisations are under 65.

So 13 percent of deaths are under 65. Which would give a death toll in the under 65s of roughly 5800 if my maths is correct. How many of those had underlying illnesses? 5800 from a population of 66 million.
And 65 percent of hospitalisations are 65 and over. It’s a fairly clear picture on where the focus should be isn’t it?

 

[JM14]

So 13 percent of deaths are under 65. Which would give a death toll in the under 65s of roughly 5800 if my maths is correct. How many of those had underlying illnesses? 5800 from a population of 66 million.
And 65 percent of hospitalisations are 65 and over. It’s a fairly clear picture on where the focus should be isn’t it?

It doesnt matter their age or if they had any conditions prior to this, 50000 people have died. That is the only important figure here

 

[Jimstewart]

You simply cannot just shield the ill and vulnerable without completely isolating them from their partners, their carers, their children, the whole world? For how long? When do you stop? Do care home workers live in the care homes indefinitely?

What about the mental health of those people watching on as everyone else gets on with spreading the virus amongst themselves with no end in sight?

Everyone has a part to play in fighting this virus, anyone who just suggests locking away millions of people with not even a vague suggestion on how this could be achieved in practice need to look outside their own boxed in view of the world.

So because the old and the ill are unfortunately at risk from this virus we have wrecked jobs, businesses, educations, mental health and God alone knows what else? What about the mental health of the majority watching on as their livelihoods are removed from them ensuring a future of misery for them and their loved ones?