Still booing the taking the knee

newyddion said:
We’re in agreement yet you are still staying to make it sound like an argument.

We can deal with stupidity with education.. that doesn’t necessarily mean a cut an pasted explanation of racism up on a big screen or on the club website.

We can deal with racists too.. with education as most of not all racist view and positions come from a place of ignorance or misunderstanding.
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I don’t agree with you as to the origins of taking the knee. What you’ve said is historically wrong. I’m not arguing with anyone!
 
BobendBert said:
I don’t agree with you as to the origins of taking the knee. What you’ve said is historically wrong. I’m not arguing with anyone!
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Footballers aren’t taking the knee because of MLK it’s because of Colin Kaepernick
 
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BobendBert said:
Secondly the players and league have been at pains to explain why they take the knee.
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Yes, and most of those who oppose it claim to refuse to accept that explanation as they think it carries other connotations. I think they’re wrong to think it. But I can’t say they don’t think it.

By the same token our players were at pains to explain why they stopped. That didn’t and doesn’t prevent a load of middle aged white blokes on here deciding their views are more important either.
 
TeessideCleveland said:
Footballers are taking the knee to ask for tolerance - mainly racial tolerance
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‘Mainly racial tolerance’
BobendBert said:
No, they’re taking the knee because of the reasons they’ve repeatedly and clearly told everyone!
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Go on then.. what are the reasons that Middlesbrough football took the knee for that they repeatedly and clearly told everybody?
FishofContemplation said:
Yes, and most of those who oppose it claim to refuse to accept that explanation as they think it carries other connotations. I think they’re wrong to think it. But I can’t say they don’t think it.
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Yup
FishofContemplation said:
By the same token our players were at pains to explain why they stopped. That didn’t and doesn’t prevent a load of middle aged white blokes on here deciding their views are more important either.
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A lot of people are being fooled' - Ferdinand's statement in full​

"This should not be about QPR. Many clubs did not take the knee on the opening weekend, yet this was not reported.
"Taking the knee was very powerful but we feel that impact has now been diluted.
"In the same way 'Clap For Carers' was very emotional for us all, it got to a stage where it had run its natural course and the decision was rightly made to stop it.
"Does that mean we, as a nation, don't care or appreciate our NHS workers? Of course it doesn't.
"No-one is more passionate than me about this topic. I have spoken on the matter throughout my footballing life.
"I work for one of the most diverse football clubs in this country. A lot of people are being fooled out there.
"Recently, I took the decision not to do any more interviews on racism in football because the debate was going around in circles. People want a nice soundbite when something happens, but how many of the media who have criticised QPR over the past 48 hours genuinely want change?
"The taking of the knee has reached a point of 'good PR' but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.
"What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next 10 years but see no actual progress made?
"Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.
"Those media that have been quick to question us should be looking more inwardly. Our Under 18s were forced to abandon a game in August 2019 against AD Nervion FC due to racist abuse.
"More than 12 months on, Uefa refused to deal with the situation and the Spanish FA did nothing.
"What media coverage has been given to that? Not nearly as much as what has been granted to QPR not taking a knee.
"Don't judge us. Simple research and evidence will show you we are doing more than most. If you want change, judge yourselves."
 
TeessideCleveland said:
I think this is a more direct comment, whereas with respect I think some of your recent postings are slightly 'muddying the water' - when it is quite clear why the majority of those who boo are doing so
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It’s not a clear binary issue. Having a sensible open and honest discussion or expressing an opinion is not muddying the waters.. the waters are muddy to start of with.

Explaining the explanation and redundant point scoring doesn’t really address any issues or move the discussion forward.
 
newyddion said:
‘Mainly racial tolerance’

Go on then.. what are the reasons that Middlesbrough football took the knee for that they repeatedly and clearly told everybody?

Yup

A lot of people are being fooled' - Ferdinand's statement in full​

"This should not be about QPR. Many clubs did not take the knee on the opening weekend, yet this was not reported.
"Taking the knee was very powerful but we feel that impact has now been diluted.
"In the same way 'Clap For Carers' was very emotional for us all, it got to a stage where it had run its natural course and the decision was rightly made to stop it.
"Does that mean we, as a nation, don't care or appreciate our NHS workers? Of course it doesn't.
"No-one is more passionate than me about this topic. I have spoken on the matter throughout my footballing life.
"I work for one of the most diverse football clubs in this country. A lot of people are being fooled out there.
"Recently, I took the decision not to do any more interviews on racism in football because the debate was going around in circles. People want a nice soundbite when something happens, but how many of the media who have criticised QPR over the past 48 hours genuinely want change?
"The taking of the knee has reached a point of 'good PR' but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.
"What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next 10 years but see no actual progress made?
"Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.
"Those media that have been quick to question us should be looking more inwardly. Our Under 18s were forced to abandon a game in August 2019 against AD Nervion FC due to racist abuse.
"More than 12 months on, Uefa refused to deal with the situation and the Spanish FA did nothing.
"What media coverage has been given to that? Not nearly as much as what has been granted to QPR not taking a knee.
"Don't judge us. Simple research and evidence will show you we are doing more than most. If you want change, judge yourselves."
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The big issue I have with Ferdinand's statement is it's missing the bit where he says what alternative action QPR are taking or that he would like to see taken. And that's the same issue with our own stance.

He's not wrong and he's well within his rights to feel aggrieved. But if you feel that strongly about it then what else do you want doing? Because as it stands we're not taking the knee because "it's not enough" but there's no clear communication of what else we're doing.

So it almost becomes a strop. Taking the knee might only have minimal impact. But it has some impact because the racists or idiots are still booing it. The fact half the cabinet don't like it is reason enough for me too. But, and I'm sure he doesn't think this way, how Ferdinand comes across is "not enough is being done, so we're not going to support the little that is being done. We're taking our ball home".

If that stance was clearly going to trigger more action, or he could explain how it would, then fair enough. But I've not seen anything along those lines. I get where he's coming from, but I think he's misguided. You might as well say "remove all anti racism campaigns from football because they're not enough".
 
FishofContemplation said:
Yes, and most of those who oppose it claim to refuse to accept that explanation as they think it carries other connotations. I think they’re wrong to think it. But I can’t say they don’t think it.

By the same token our players were at pains to explain why they stopped. That didn’t and doesn’t prevent a load of middle aged white blokes on here deciding their views are more important either.
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They probably do think it. Hence a conclusion of stupidity or racism.

No middle aged white blokes on here are suggesting players should be forced to take the knee. There are valid reasons to argue it isn’t enough or that it won’t help. Fair arguments. I don’t agree but whatever.

What is being said though is that fans booing the gesture is either stupid or racist but probably both. It’s nothing to do with the reason Boro players stopped doing it, nothing to do with our views on here being more important than Boro players choosing not to do it. In fact that’s completely besides the point.

newyddion said:
Go on then.. what are the reasons that Middlesbrough football took the knee for that they repeatedly and clearly told everybody?
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They don’t take the knee mate. Assombolonga explained that the gesture had an important meaning but that the Boro players wanted action rather than gestures.

Southgate though explained carefully to the Boro crowd after an England game what the gesture was being done for. He has done it a few times.
 
BobendBert said:
They don’t take the knee mate. Assombolonga explained that the gesture had an important meaning but that the Boro players wanted action rather than gestures.

Southgate though explained carefully to the Boro crowd after an England game what the gesture was being done for. He has done it a few times.
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Our Captain Britt Assombalonga explained that he didn’t want to be remembered for ‘taking the knee’ and not doing anything else. Similar to Rio Ferdinand and QPR.

Southgate is England manager and he’s not responsible for MFC, it’s fans and it’s approach to anti racist gestures.
 
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newyddion said:
That was one player at a point in time.. the clubs alternative hasn’t been visable and are we really hanging our clubs reputation on a player who couldn’t be asred to play for us?
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Oh I completely agree with you there mate. Sorry I must have misunderstood your point so was answering something else. Blame it on my old age!
 
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