Pfizer first dose efficacy

SmallTown said:
It’s fine. I’m glad that we have got lucky on the vaccine front. I just don’t think you can praise someone for getting lucky. Especially when the reason they took the decision was to make themselves look good
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You don't know the reasons why the Government and it's scientific advisors took the decision, unless you were involved in the discussions. You're Matt Hancock and I'm claiming my free pint
 
MolteniArcore said:
I am a harsh critic of this Government but I think they deserve a BIG pat on the back for how well we have done with vaccinations. We have hit our targets so far and are excelling compared to the majority of the rest of the world.

But it has nothing to do with us leaving the EU. We ordered, bought and planned for our vaccine rollout whilst subject to all the EU laws the rest of the block were. Don't fall for the usual Brexit propaganda on this one.
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Strange that even the EU have admitted that not being part of the EU allowed us to work like a "speedboat". They're well known for their pro Brexit stance apparently
 
Londons_Moggie said:
Strange that even the EU have admitted that not being part of the EU allowed us to work like a "speedboat". They're well known for their pro Brexit stance apparently
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It's certainly not strange. We were subject to EU law until 11pm on 31st December 2020 and we began vaccinating on 8 December 2020. Square that circle.
 
The
festa5 said:
That was my question. Would being in the EU have prevented us doing this? I assumed not, but good to have it confirmed.
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They answer is yes

as we were not “still in the Eu” at all we were in the transition period before leaving but heading down a different path with a full leaving date looming.

had we still been a fully fledged part of the Eu there is no way we would have moved on without france Germany etc and we would have followed their collective thinking and strategy

so the answer is yes
 
MolteniArcore said:
It's certainly not strange. We were subject to EU law until 11pm on 31st December 2020 and we began vaccinating on 8 December 2020. Square that circle.
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That is true Molteni, as far as it goes, and we were offered to be part of the EU procurement process. The Pfizer jabs cost us 10 euro's per shot more, because we declined. The EU did push it's members to be part of a one state procurement proces, mainly on cost. Had we been fully paid up members, we could have gone alone, but would we?

Who knows. Being within the transition period made it easier to refuse, I suspect.
 
Laughing said:
That is true Molteni, as far as it goes, and we were offered to be part of the EU procurement process. The Pfizer jabs cost us 10 euro's per shot more, because we declined. The EU did push it's members to be part of a one state procurement proces, mainly on cost. Had we been fully paid up members, we could have gone alone, but would we?

Who knows. Being within the transition period made it easier to refuse, I suspect.
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Exactly as no other EU Nation broke rank so why would we.
 
Laughing said:
Who knows. Being within the transition period made it easier to refuse, I suspect.
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This may well be the case. But the facts remain, we were subject to all EU Laws at the time we bought and planned our vaccine strategy, as were all other EU countries. We chose to act within the law and approve the vaccine early.

What I suspect is the way Johnson is, and how high our death toll is, and how screwed our economy is compared to the rest of the EU he may well have opted for this path anyway. Ultimately you have to justify yourself to your domestic voters and I don't think he would have delayed the vaccine which would have cost more lives.

We have never been the whipping boy of Europe. I am not sure why we suddenly would have turned into it over a vaccine.
 
MolteniArcore said:
This may well be the case. But the facts remain, we were subject to all EU Laws at the time we bought and planned our vaccine strategy, as were all other EU countries. We chose to act within the law and approve the vaccine early.

What I suspect is the way Johnson is, and how high our death toll is, and how screwed our economy is compared to the rest of the EU he may well have opted for this path anyway. Ultimately you have to justify yourself to your domestic voters and I don't think he would have delayed the vaccine which would have cost more lives.

We have never been the whipping boy of Europe. I am not sure why we suddenly would have turned into it over a vaccine.
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Again true as far as it goes. Had we not voted to leave the EU Johnson would have been no where near no 10 so we probably, would have had a better covid response generally so this may not have applied. So as I said, it helped that we were in a transition period with an inept leader.

More relevant is how tory policies had the UK ill prepared for a pandemic and will continue to do so, in fact, once our NHS is broken up and the profitable parts sold, yet still subsidised by the tax payer, we will be in an infintely worse situation for any future health crisis.
 
MolteniArcore said:
I am a harsh critic of this Government but I think they deserve a BIG pat on the back for how well we have done with vaccinations. We have hit our targets so far and are excelling compared to the majority of the rest of the world.

But it has nothing to do with us leaving the EU. We ordered, bought and planned for our vaccine rollout whilst subject to all the EU laws the rest of the block were. Don't fall for the usual Brexit propaganda on this one.

And despite at the time of the EU Referendum being a Remainer I can certainly admit that the EU have royally messed up their programme... but any one of the 27 could have done exactly what we had done at any time, it's just their sovereign Government's decided to stick together on this one. I can imagine that despite their poor vaccine rollout I bet most of these EU countries will have better death stats than us come the end of summer...
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Would we have broken ranks on this is we had not been about to leave the EU?

No other EU country broke ranks.
 
Got to disagree Small Town.
Without reference to the Govt one area this country is still a world leader is in medical research and medical science understanding.
There was a reason the EU medical hq was in London before upping sticks to Amsterdam.
All that expertise has allowed that community to properly understand & make inferences from the PR and data releases for all the vaccines to a level probably no other country could, including the USA - check out Faucci on the How to vaccinate the world podcast.
Every decision on how to react to the pandemic prior to the vaccination stage made by this govt has been wrong and if we ever get a public enquiry god knows what will come out.
But when the discussions about extending the intervals between the jabs started in public it was well before the govt made the call.
So my impression is that finally science won the day and presented their recommendations in such a way that it was an easy call to implement it.
Add that to finally letting the NHS coordinate and implement the actual vaccination program rather than a Tory Crony and the UK is ahead of the game.
Would the devolved Welsh and Scottish govts have followed the same path if political capital could have been made like the EU and French tried to do? Don’t think so.
Is everything in the future rosy - no it’s not. Idiot Tory MPs with goldfish memories are urging reopening too fast cheered on by the lunatic press supporters. I don’t think Johnson has enough moral fibre to withstand that for too long.
Test and Trace (Serco) are already laying off contract staff based on the decreasing infection rate rather than maintaining overkill like in South Korea like they also learned nothing from last March when the upsurge overwhelmed them.
But just this once the UK has done this right and based on the right reasons with the best evidence.
 
Mwelolo said:
Would we have broken ranks on this is we had not been about to leave the EU?

No other EU country broke ranks.
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Seems to be the only argument. "we wouldn't have done it because others didn't do it"

I'm sure someone will be able to explain the logic behind those statements. It doesn't make sense to me.
 
Decent_Left said:
Got to disagree Small Town.
Without reference to the Govt one area this country is still a world leader is in medical research and medical science understanding.
There was a reason the EU medical hq was in London before upping sticks to Amsterdam.
All that expertise has allowed that community to properly understand & make inferences from the PR and data releases for all the vaccines to a level probably no other country could, including the USA - check out Faucci on the How to vaccinate the world podcast.
Every decision on how to react to the pandemic prior to the vaccination stage made by this govt has been wrong and if we ever get a public enquiry god knows what will come out.
But when the discussions about extending the intervals between the jabs started in public it was well before the govt made the call.
So my impression is that finally science won the day and presented their recommendations in such a way that it was an easy call to implement it.
Add that to finally letting the NHS coordinate and implement the actual vaccination program rather than a Tory Crony and the UK is ahead of the game.
Would the devolved Welsh and Scottish govts have followed the same path if political capital could have been made like the EU and French tried to do? Don’t think so.
Is everything in the future rosy - no it’s not. Idiot Tory MPs with goldfish memories are urging reopening too fast cheered on by the lunatic press supporters. I don’t think Johnson has enough moral fibre to withstand that for too long.
Test and Trace (Serco) are already laying off contract staff based on the decreasing infection rate rather than maintaining overkill like in South Korea like they also learned nothing from last March when the upsurge overwhelmed them.
But just this once the UK has done this right and based on the right reasons with the best evidence.
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If test and trace are laying off staff, will we got our £22bn back?

I just disagree. it's clear from the way this government acts, last year they held up a bill until it had a statement on it saying what a good job they had done, that the only reason we took the approach we did was to try and make them look good..
 
MolteniArcore said:
It's certainly not strange. We were subject to EU law until 11pm on 31st December 2020 and we began vaccinating on 8 December 2020. Square that circle.
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The Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and others also agreed deals at the same time as us with the Vax companies.The EU prevented them from going ahead with it and made them go through with their procurement process. The same would have happened to us had we still been in. We aren't and that is why nearly 20m have now been vaccinated. Meanwhile in Europe
 
Londons_Moggie said:
The Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and others also agreed deals at the same time as us with the Vax companies.The EU prevented them from going ahead with it and made them go through with their procurement process. The same would have happened to us had we still been in. We aren't and that is why nearly 20m have now been vaccinated. Meanwhile in Europe
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Got a link?
 
Londons_Moggie said:
The Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and others also agreed deals at the same time as us with the Vax companies.The EU prevented them from going ahead with it and made them go through with their procurement process. The same would have happened to us had we still been in. We aren't and that is why nearly 20m have now been vaccinated. Meanwhile in Europe
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I don’t think that’s true. I think they were waiting for market approval
 
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