Mask wearing post pandemic

[Laughing]

Of course wearing a mask doesn't solve the pandemic, no one here is arguing it will. But if wearing a mask stops me spreading it to even one other person, then I'll willingly do it.

And I am not arguing against masks. I am arguing the hipocrisy of calling someone selfish for not wearing a mask while sitting in a restaurant not wearing a mask.

I am pointing out that wearing a mask will have little or no effect without other measures. Not my opinion, but the Who's opinion.

I don't think restrictions should have been lifted at all until we had the delta variant under control but I still didn't name call people going shopping or eating out with friends and family.

This thread is all about one side calling the other out for being selfish. It has very little to do with how effective wearing a mask in a shop is whilst there are no restrictions in place.

 

[Teesste]

I will follow the lead of Chris Whitty & Patrick Valance in wearing a mask in crowded indoor areas if it can provide a degree of protection to others.

Genuine question to those hurling the insults at non mask wearers tho... In a couple of weeks time the nightclubs will open. Our younger generation (where ironically a large proportion of current cases can be found) will flock back to them to restart their social lives whilst cramming onto dance floors, breathing and sweating over one another! Do we really expect them all to be wearing facemasks whilst chatting up the local talent!? Nightclubs will surely become a Covid breeding ground but will attendance also be seen as selfish? It feels like the anger and frustration aimed at the proportion of older age groups not wearing masks will, in the long term be misdirected.

 

[SmallTown]

You are entitled to that opinion.

Just don't cry when some call you out on it

Wear a mask, that's fine. Your choice. I won't call anybody out for wearing one. I won't be wearing one as that's my choice. Unless asked to do so in a specific venue. Freedom of choice is a wonderful concept.

You’ve got things the wrong way round. That’s not unusual for you but I’m sick of people twisting things just to attack me. It’s getting sad.
Anyway for entire clarity as you seem determined to twist things: people say they will stop wearing masks.
I consider this selfish and have clearly stated why.
People have then got upset at this yet been unable to counter my reasons as to why.
You can’t then just insult and attack me for holding a valid opinion when you can’t argue against it. Well, clearly you and @Laughing can do that. But you shouldn’t. You’re getting tied up in personalities and not issues. That’s sad for you and it’s damaging the board. Laughing has pretty much said he agrees with my stance on mask wearing yet he wants to attack me personally so is arguing against it. You just want to attack me personally and always have. Let’s try stopping it? Let’s see if you can? There are a few on here who need to heed this but you really need to start discussing whatever issues are being discussed. To personally attack me, or to jump on a thread just to attack me is at worst bullying. At best it destroys the thread. I mentioned this the other day that it’s becoming like COB on here. Some posters will chip on an anything just to insult, bully and attack me. Me being me I’ll fight back against this but you ruin any thread you’re on when you do this. It’s really small minded and petty to discuss personalities rather than issues so try and be better. Try and be decent

 

[fmttmadmin]

Serious question for the above - if we were working in that nightclub would we not want to feel some level of protection. Surely we all want to be respectful and thoughtful to those working in vulnerable areas. I know that I will.

 

[Laughing]

You’ve got things the wrong way round. That’s not unusual for you but I’m sick of people twisting things just to attack me. It’s getting sad.
Anyway for entire clarity as you seem determined to twist things: people say they will stop wearing masks.
I consider this selfish and have clearly stated why.
People have then got upset at this yet been unable to counter my reasons as to why.
You can’t then just insult and attack me for holding a valid opinion when you can’t argue against it. Well, clearly you and @Laughing can do that. But you shouldn’t. You’re getting tied up in personalities and not issues. That’s sad for you and it’s damaging the board. Laughing has pretty much said he agrees with my stance on mask wearing yet he wants to attack me personally so is arguing against it. You just want to attack me personally and always have. Let’s try stopping it? Let’s see if you can? There are a few on here who need to heed this but you really need to start discussing whatever issues are being discussed. To personally attack me, or to jump on a thread just to attack me is at worst bullying. At best it destroys the thread. I mentioned this the other day that it’s becoming like COB on here. Some posters will chip on an anything just to insult, bully and attack me. Me bring me I’ll fight back against this but you ruin any thread you’re on when you do this. It’s really small minded and petty to discuss personalities rather than issues so try and be better. Try and be decent

You really don't understand. That's sad.

 

[SmallTown]

You really don't understand. That's sad.

I’ve tried explaining my feelings to you. Maybe you should stop ignoring that

 

[Teesste]

Serious question for the above - if we were working in that nightclub would we not want to feel some level of protection. Surely we all want to be respectful and thoughtful to those working in vulnerable areas. I know that I will.

You and I would possibly want to feel some level of protection given that we are of an age where we are more at risk however given that the vast majority of staff in the nightclubs are likely to be of a younger age you may find that is not the case in reality as a lot of the younger age group have this air of invincibility about them. Going to the bar to buy a drink I see nothing wrong with popping a mask on out of courtesy to staff, but when on a hot sweaty dancefloor when people are trying to impress it just isn't going to happen... and that is where it will spread. (p.s. it's probably 20 years since I was last in a nightclub so this isn't about me!)

 

[Laughing]

I’ve tried explaining my feelings to you. Maybe you should stop ignoring that

I get your feelings I think you are a hypocrit for the reasons given.

You insult then complain when you get some back. I have explained my position and why I am uncomfortable with your hipocracy.

You take advantage of the rule relaxation that you agree with whilst infection rates are rocketing. Then insult people for taking advantage of other relaxation in rules.

I don't agree with any relaxation in rules and it's an absolute fact that going to a pub or a cinema or a restaurant is infecting more people than not wearing masks.

Your argument for wearing masks doesn't even hold a lot of water. It doesn't work unless it is used alongside other measures. Not my opinion but the world health organisations opinion.

But carry on as I know you will looking down your nose at others, insulting them, crying foul whilst ignoring the basic fact that using facilities is infecting people and probably endangering them.

 

[Randy]

Serious question for the above - if we were working in that nightclub would we not want to feel some level of protection. Surely we all want to be respectful and thoughtful to those working in vulnerable areas. I know that I will.

People are Rob. Not one person in this thread has moaned at people choosing to continue wearing masks. But plenty have moaned at those who will choose not to wear one for a variety of reasons. Plus we have folk wishing death on family members of those who choose not to wear masks once the legal mandate is over, yet this is overlooked by those in authority on here.

Do people seriously believe that the government and its advisors would stop this mandate without good reason and taking into account all the data available to them?

As for nightclub workers, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them continue to wear masks for the time being, but wouldn't have an issue with those that don't. They've got bigger things to worry about after been closed completely for more than year with pitiful government support. All this whilst watching professional footballers for example carry on as normal and those in power flouting the rules here there and everywhere.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Unfortunately Adi, long covid is with us now and to stop that, what would we do?

Get the variant under control by continuing to impose legal restrictions, thereby providing more time for the population to be vaccinated and for testing of vaccinations in children to be confirmed as safe.

You would have to break transmission chains and that means a lockdown. The current restrictions clearly are not enough as the infection rate is growing exponentially.

I agree they aren't enough. Despite that we are easing them and people are advocating that people should be allowed to choose not to wear a mask. Logically flawed no?

You argue about long covid as a problem, quite rightly so, but suggest anyone not wearing a mask is selfish. Isn't anyone going to a pub, restaurant or cinema equally as selfish?

Yes if they are not wearing masks, keeping socially distanced and generally being decent people.

Continuing to wear a mask won't really help, T&T is woefully inadequate when we have low infection rates and is completely pointless with 30000 infections every day.

This is counter to the science. Mask wearing coupled with other measures helps to reduce spread. The variant is much more highly transmissible. It is ridiculous to argue that because measures aren't enough we should just remove them altogether. Unfortunately this government rolled out the red carpet to the variant and it is here now. We seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of the victory of a successful vaccination programme.

T&T is an absolute disgrace and it is incredible that this hasn't been investigated.

Wearing a mask is like taking paracetamol for a brain tumor.

Not really. Masks aren't there to protect the wearer. They are there to slow down transmissibility.

Without more supporting mechanisms in the way of restrictions more people will catch covid. Some will die, some will suffer hospitalization with long covid for some time, and our kids are a health disaster waiting to happen. Wearing a mask in tesco's isn't going to change that, I am afraid.

It's just the same point repeatedly. And it's wrong. Mask wearing is to protect others and slow down transmission. Couple with other simple measures it can and has made an impact. Again there appears to be this ridiculous argument appearing that because mask wearing doesn't solve the problem completely we shouldn't bother doing anything. Plainly nonsense.

The question then becomes what level of health crisis are we comfortable with? None would be my answer, but apparently it isn't for everyone and I am not about to criticize someone for not wearing a mask whilst others are using pubs and cafes. that is a level of hypocrisy I am just not comfortable with.

There is no hypocrisy. It is not inconvenient to ask people to wear masks. To socially distance. It is as common a courtesy as covering your mouth when you cough. So yeah I have a problem when someone wilfully decides they aren't going to wear a mask. The only reason not to is if you're a selfish pr*ck.

 

[Laughing]

People are Rob. Not one person in this thread has moaned at people choosing to continue wearing masks. But plenty have moaned at those who will choose not to wear one for a variety of reasons. Plus we have folk wishing death on family members of those who choose not to wear masks once the legal mandate is over, yet this is overlooked by those in authority on here.

Do people seriously believe that the government and its advisors would stop this mandate without good reason and taking into account all the data available to them?

As for nightclub workers, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them continue to wear masks for the time being, but wouldn't have an issue with those that don't. They've got bigger things to worry about after been closed completely for more than year with pitiful government support. All this whilst watching professional footballers for example carry on as normal and those in power flouting the rules here there and everywhere.

Randy the wishing harm on a family member was aimed at me, and I think we opened up too soon and never once suggested I wouldn't wear a mask. The guy made an assumption and wasn't the only one on the thread. If I am on a packed tube, I will wear a mask, if I am walking 10 feet into a restaurant where I will be removing my mask anyway, I probably won't.

My issue with the thread has always been the snotty insulting of people choosing to make their own decisions, by others who are choosing to make their own decisions.

 

[HarryVegas]

Do people seriously believe that the government and its advisors would stop this mandate without good reason and taking into account all the data available to them?

Erm....are you not already familiar with the reckless liar in no.10? Of course they would. They are. We have access to the same data that they do and it's a disaster.

 

[Adi_Dem]

My issue with the thread has always been the snotty insulting of people choosing to make their own decisions, by others who are choosing to make their own decisions.

People can do whatever they want it's just that reasonable and fair inferences can be drawn from a person's choices.

Do people seriously believe that the government and its advisors would stop this mandate without good reason and taking into account all the data available to them?

Erm, have you been living under a rock for the last 5 years??

 

[Randy]

Erm....are you not already familiar with the reckless liar in no.10? Of course they would. They are. We have access to the same data that they do and it's a disaster.

Sorry Harry that's conspiracy territory.

What exactly is the disaster? Covid is now 24th I think on the list of causes of death in this country. Vaccines are working. New York, Florida, Texas, all proof that the vaccine works whilst those areas are getting back on their feet.

 

[Wiseman_Vaughn]

Erm....are you not already familiar with the reckless liar in no.10? Of course they would. They are. We have access to the same data that they do and it's a disaster.

Money before health!
A mass return to work places - and to cover themselves, they acknowledge that cases could hit 100,000 a day. I wonder if there will be a backlash against this?

 

[Adi_Dem]

What exactly is the disaster?

Blimey.

 

[the_smog_chorus]

You’ve got things the wrong way round. That’s not unusual for you but I’m sick of people twisting things just to attack me. It’s getting sad.
Anyway for entire clarity as you seem determined to twist things: people say they will stop wearing masks.
I consider this selfish and have clearly stated why.
People have then got upset at this yet been unable to counter my reasons as to why.
You can’t then just insult and attack me for holding a valid opinion when you can’t argue against it. Well, clearly you and @Laughing can do that. But you shouldn’t. You’re getting tied up in personalities and not issues. That’s sad for you and it’s damaging the board. Laughing has pretty much said he agrees with my stance on mask wearing yet he wants to attack me personally so is arguing against it. You just want to attack me personally and always have. Let’s try stopping it? Let’s see if you can? There are a few on here who need to heed this but you really need to start discussing whatever issues are being discussed. To personally attack me, or to jump on a thread just to attack me is at worst bullying. At best it destroys the thread. I mentioned this the other day that it’s becoming like COB on here. Some posters will chip on an anything just to insult, bully and attack me. Me being me I’ll fight back against this but you ruin any thread you’re on when you do this. It’s really small minded and petty to discuss personalities rather than issues so try and be better. Try and be decent

I countered yesterday with 3 points (as did @Laughing with 3 - I have copied mine in below), my Wife works with children and is dealing with these issues - it is a huge problem for the future generations, we also both work with a charity working with vulnerable children and see these things first hand, I do appreciate this hasn't really been spoken about widely and perhaps many people don't realise what a problem it is.

Babies are being robbed of vital early sensory developments offered by actual, normal life.
Children with anxiety, fear and panic attacks from mask wearing.
Teenagers who can no longer bond and learn about social interaction at a critical life point.

 

[HarryVegas]

Yay, I'm a conspiracy theorist! That's me out on this one.

 

[Randy]

Blimey.

How have people gone from having massive belief in the vaccine program to not believing in its effectiveness at all?

Also noticed you don't have a counter argument to progress of various states in America. Again proof of vaccine success.

 

[Laughing]

Get the variant under control by continuing to impose legal restrictions, thereby providing more time for the population to be vaccinated and for testing of vaccinations in children to be confirmed as safe.



I agree they aren't enough. Despite that we are easing them and people are advocating that people should be allowed to choose not to wear a mask. Logically flawed no?



Yes if they are not wearing masks, keeping socially distanced and generally being decent people.



This is counter to the science. Mask wearing coupled with other measures helps to reduce spread. The variant is much more highly transmissible. It is ridiculous to argue that because measures aren't enough we should just remove them altogether. Unfortunately this government rolled out the red carpet to the variant and it is here now. We seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of the victory of a successful vaccination programme.

T&T is an absolute disgrace and it is incredible that this hasn't been investigated.



Not really. Masks aren't there to protect the wearer. They are there to slow down transmissibility.



It's just the same point repeatedly. And it's wrong. Mask wearing is to protect others and slow down transmission. Couple with other simple measures it can and has made an impact. Again there appears to be this ridiculous argument appearing that because mask wearing doesn't solve the problem completely we shouldn't bother doing anything. Plainly nonsense.



There is no hypocrisy. It is not inconvenient to ask people to wear masks. To socially distance. It is as common a courtesy as covering your mouth when you cough. So yeah I have a problem when someone wilfully decides they aren't going to wear a mask. The only reason not to is if you're a selfish pr*ck.

We are not too far apart, but I disagree completely on the hypocrisy argument and the benefit of masks when no other measures are in place, which is essentially what this thread is about. The WHO recently released an article on mask wearing with no other measures. They found wearing a mask to be completely ineffective.

A study in Japan found the same thing.

Your argument that couple mask wearing with other simple measure..... All measures are being removed and plenty of them were removed months ago. The thread is specifically about mask wearing alone. There will be no other measures in place.

It's not inconvenient to ask people to wear masks. It's also not inconvenient to not call people selfish pricks. It's also not inconvenient to not eat in restaurants whilst infection rates are skyrocketing.

The thread stinks of people taking advantage of some facilities, knowing it causes infection vectors, whilst name calling others who don't want to wear a mask knowing it causes infection vectors.

It's hypocrisy Adi. You might not like it, but that's what it is.