Lots of anti-Marxists in Hungary

Marine Le Pen and her vile party were the far right over the last couple of decades. They failed in their attempts to get the vote, Macron won with a moderate right, a la where our Tories are.

If you have a culturally unacceptable right wing hate mob pushing for power be it Le Pens NF or Farages UKIP, then the 'moderate' right wing party pushing some more extreme policies seems more palatable. I wouldn't be surprised if the same people financially supporting Macron were the ones supporting LE Pen, and the same here Johnson's backers stumping up cash for UKIP. It's all about managing the Overton window.
 
Same_as_before said:
What a load of Baloney. Look at the of East Germany, Italy, Le Pen, every time a far right group look try and gain a seat in our country they lose their deposit, same for the far left, but to be fair they both basically believe the same.

I was talking to a 22yo Rumanian lad yesterday and his girlfriend, they think the UK is fabulous.
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You're still ignoring the point that one of our main parties has gone pretty far to the right. It's now the party of choice for the misguided nationalist
 
BoroMart said:
Marine Le Pen and her vile party were the far right over the last couple of decades. They failed in their attempts to get the vote, Macron won with a moderate right, a la where our Tories are.

If you have a culturally unacceptable right wing hate mob pushing for power be it Le Pens NF or Farages UKIP, then the 'moderate' right wing party pushing some more extreme policies seems more palatable. I wouldn't be surprised if the same people financially supporting Macron were the ones supporting LE Pen, and the same here Johnson's backers stumping up cash for UKIP. It's all about managing the Overton window.
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Yep, I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting we've become a far right country but we have shifted to the right, as you say the overton window has moved in that direction I think.

We are hamstrung by our no longer fit for purpose FPTP system mind. More people voted for left leaning parties than right in the last election (even with brexit giving the right a boost), but the vote was split, too many left leaning parties. That doesn't mean we haven't moved to the right (particularly in England) but we're a very divided country. More so than ever I'd say.

There will also be millions who probably aren't that right leaning but still back the Tories because they don't really take much interest in politics, don't understand it, but are taken in by Boris's patter and daft haircut.

A lot of the electorate have been conned (however much they deny it) into voting for a right wing party and they don't even know it.
 
The right wing of the Conservative Party has definitely "wagged the dog" (sorry about the mixed metaphors) in recent years.

I hope there is a reckoning coming but Johnson has been brutal in excising internal opposition from any positions of influence and he can pretty much do what he wants. Which, mostly, is pretty little. The Tories have have excelled in presenting a united face to the electorate whereas Labour has spent the time in opposition not so much stabbing each other in the back as thrusting the blades twixt eyebrows.

I, perhaps, naively hope that the numpties who booed their own players taking the knee or justified and excused it can see who's side they are on.

Probably not though.
 
i dont think the UK has so much lurched to the right, more those far right views seem more acceptable, especially when those holding the highest office are also spouting them.
its been going that way for around 5-6 years i would estimate.
 
There are a lot of anti-Marxists in Hungary, with good reason when they've had Soviet tanks rumbling through the streets.
 
Many European nations have a broader political spectrum than we do, with far right and communist parties regularly winning a few seats each.

You could argue that makes them more right wing than us, but you'd have to argue they're more left wing than us at the same time.

However, looking at the last few UK elections, it's pretty clear that UKIP ate the BNP and was then, in turn, eaten by the Tories.
 
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Same_as_before said:
What a load of Baloney. Look at the of East Germany, Italy, Le Pen, every time a far right group look try and gain a seat in our country they lose their deposit, same for the far left, but to be fair they both basically believe the same.

I was talking to a 22yo Rumanian lad yesterday and his girlfriend, they think the UK is fabulous.
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Screenshot_20210903-125713.jpgki
 
Adi_Dem said:
Ok well if you look at the map @bear66 posted it shows how far away from Hungary and how far down the 'league table' France is. You argued that their nationalist party that gains vote shares ours can only dream of. I think that the league table contradicts that and I also would argue that we have a very nationalist/populist government never mind just a rise in nationalism. You also implied that France's decision to ban face coverings was motivated by nationalism, which I don't think is correct. Firstly, it was not a countrywide ban. It was a temporary measure put in place in some parts of France to prohibit in public places other than at religious services. That's a little bit different. Whether you agree or disagree with that decision (and I strongly disagree with it and agree with the UN's take) it was expressed to have been driven by a desire to defuse religious tension, protect citizens and reduce civil unrest at a time of heightened tension. It didn't come about because of nationalism or a rise of nationalism in France in the way you implied. In any event the points being made are pretty much irrelevant to the proposition being discussed which is that England is more politically aligned with a country like Hungary than it is countries like Germany and France. I think that stands up to scrutiny.
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As the Tories aligned with the far right in the European Parliament.
 
Frozen Horse said:
Many European nations have a broader political spectrum than we do, with far right and communist parties regularly winning a few seats each.

You could argue that makes them more right wing than us, but you'd have to argue they're more left wing than us at the same time.

However, looking at the last few UK elections, it's pretty clear that UKIP ate the BNP and was then, in turn, were eaten by the Tories.
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It's a good case for PR. They get their minority share of the vote and don't need to infiltrate and take over a major party.
 
bear66 said:
It's a good case for PR. They get their minority share of the vote and don't need to infiltrate and take over a major party.
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Absolutely right. One of the most used criticisms of PR i.e. that you sometimes get coalitions or instablilty (not something borne out by the evidence of course) is actually one of its biggest strengths. Diverse views are represented without a minority being able to secure a huge majority with absolute power.
 
festa5 said:
Yep, I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting we've become a far right country but we have shifted to the right, as you say the overton window has moved in that direction I think.

We are hamstrung by our no longer fit for purpose FPTP system mind. More people voted for left leaning parties than right in the last election (even with brexit giving the right a boost), but the vote was split, too many left leaning parties. That doesn't mean we haven't moved to the right (particularly in England) but we're a very divided country. More so than ever I'd say.

There will also be millions who probably aren't that right leaning but still back the Tories because they don't really take much interest in politics, don't understand it, but are taken in by Boris's patter and daft haircut.

A lot of the electorate have been conned (however much they deny it) into voting for a right wing party and they don't even know it.
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I have changed my view on FPTP, I must be getting old. Anything to beat these Tories.
 
bear66 said:
The far right are only really strong in Hungary. They can get close to supporting a coalition in three other countries. The far right just vote Tory here and get almost all they want from this government.
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That's impossible to argue with, as big as a generalisation as it's possible to be. There is zero evidence of that.
 
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